What's going on in Paris?

[Mycroft]

Fourth night of riots in Paris

BOBIGNY, France (Reuters) -- Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday defended his tough crime policies against claims they helped increase tension after a fourth night of rioting in a Paris suburb in which tear gas was fired into a mosque.

It was not clear who had fired the tear gas and Sarkozy, addressing police officers, vowed to find out what had happened.

Youths hurled rocks and set fire to cars in the northeastern Clichy-sous-Bois suburb of the French capital, where many immigrants and poor families live in high-rise housing estates notorious for youth violence.

French television said six police officers were hurt and 11 people arrested in violence partly fueled by the incident at the mosque.

I haven't been paying too much attention to CNN over the weekend, but four nights of rioting in Paris? One would think that would make a bigger splash in the media.

Anyone from France care to give a first hand report?

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

It was Clichy-sous-Bois rather than Bobigny, from what I heard, though they are not all that far from one another, both being in the suburbs of Paris.
Usual riots where the immigrant populations, mostly North Africans, stuck in the suburbs (banlieues) with half the population unemployed, riot against the police, which of course is a godsend for the Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy who already fancies himself President. Being Chief of the Police, he can basically stir up trouble and call it cracking down on habitual criminals thus endearing himself to those who, typically, live as far away from the suburbs as they can.

In this case, the riot police (C.R.S., Compagnies Républicaines de Sécurité) accidentally shot a smoke grenade in a mosque.

It isn't much different from the race riots familiar to Britons and Americans, except the French street usually favours beating up policemen over hapless citizens of different skin colours.

 

[Flo]

Before the tear gas grenade in the mosque, there's been two teenagers who died from electrocution while hiding from the police inside a power transformer, the police having chased them for unknown reasons (most likely for somethink like "breaches of the peace" aka being reported by tenants for sitting and talking in an appartment building hallway). Of course, Sarkozy immediately called the local residents "vermins", accused the dead teenagers of having fled the police after a burglary despite the fact that none had been reported that evening, etc., etc.

We expect at least a full week of violences, all sides egging each other and Sarkozy grandstanding.

OTOH, there's absolutely no chance the rioting spreads to other parts of France, or even Paris for that matter.

 

[Manny]

Flo, is it true, as Lucienne Bui Trong avers, that there are hundreds of urban no-go zones in France, where the police and other public agencies can't or won't operate, where businesses are robbed so frequently they can't get insurance, where traditional French society has essentially been broken down and been abandoned? Or is that an exaggeration or invention of anti-immigrant groups in the country?

 

[American]

Before the tear gas grenade in the mosque, there's been two teenagers who died from electrocution while hiding from the police inside a power transformer,

I am writing a Hallmark Card to the mosque and to the teenagers' kin. So far it reads:


"Dear friends,
Though this could not have happened to a better set of individuals,"


That's as far as I got.

 

[Bjorn]

I am writing a Hallmark Card to the mosque and to the teenagers' kin. So far it reads:

"Dear friends,
Though this could not have happened to a better set of individuals,"

That's as far as I got.

Dear Europeans/Asians/Africans/Australians,

I am a foreigner living in the United States of America. To avoid any misunderstandings, let me assure you that the poster "American" is in no way typical for the citizens of the US I have meet during my years in their country, he's absolutely abnormal. I know most of you will have figured that out already, but I thought a warning might be in place.

That's how far I got.

 

[aerocontrols]

It was Clichy-sous-Bois rather than Bobigny, from what I heard, though they are not all that far from one another, both being in the suburbs of Paris.

The excerpt posted in this thread identifies the site of the riots as Clichy-sous-Bois. (third paragraph) Bobigny is the location where the report was filed.

MattJ

 

[Flo]

Flo, is it true, as Lucienne Bui Trong avers, that there are hundreds of urban no-go zones in France, where the police and other public agencies can't or won't operate, where businesses are robbed so frequently they can't get insurance, where traditional French society has essentially been broken down and been abandoned? Or is that an exaggeration or invention of anti-immigrant groups in the country?

Gross exaggeration and invention of anti-immigrant groups. Unless she is speaking of Corsica, where the natives consider the laws of French society don't apply to them

There are highly problematic zones, with lots of crimes, drug trafficking, etc., but nowhere the police would not dare to go. Fact is that the government has systematically reduced funding for proximity police, prevention, etc., which helps give the feeling police won't go in some areas.

 

[Flo]

Dear Europeans/Asians/Africans/Australians,

I am a foreigner living in the United States of America. To avoid any misunderstandings, let me assure you that the poster "American" is in no way typical for the citizens of the US I have meet during my years in their country, he's absolutely abnormal. I know most of you will have figured that out already, but I thought a warning might be in place.

That's how far I got.

IMO, "American" is a (very bad) propagandist for OBL, who's doing a botched job of caricaturing their stereotype of a far-right loony ...

 

[zenith-nadir]

Seems Egypt is having some sectarian "nights of rioting" too.

Egypt's Christians, Muslims Clash Again - Tue Nov 1, 4:35 AM ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051101/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_sectarian_storm_1

ALEXANDRIA, Egypt - Abu Abbas looked in disbelief around his ravaged cafe just a few yards from a Coptic Christian church. Its wooden chairs lay broken and strewn about and shattered glass from broken lamps littered the floor after his business was caught in the crossfire of Egypt's latest Christian-Muslim uproar.

Abu Abbas' cafe is right next to St. George's, one of seven churches in two Alexandria neighborhoods attacked by thousands of Muslims on the night of Oct. 21. The protesters faced off against hundreds of riot police trying to protect the church. But in the melee, they shattered St. George's windows and destroyed Abu Abbas' cafe.

The violence was triggered by a play put on by Christians deemed offensive to Islam.

The antagonism has swelled so much that after the riots, President Hosni Mubarak made a rare acknowledgment of the tensions. On Saturday, he told a gathering of Muslim scholars they need to promote "a religious discourse that cuts away intrigues and backbiting among Muslims and Christians — to preserve Egypt's stability, social fabric and national unity."

"Teach young people that heaven's law prohibits spilling the blood of the innocent," he said. "Remind them always that religion is between them and God, and our nation is for everyone. Nobody has a monopoly on faith."

 

[zenith-nadir]

The excerpt posted in this thread identifies the site of the riots as Clichy-sous-Bois. (third paragraph) Bobigny is the location where the report was filed.

MattJ

From CNN:

Fifth night of riots in Paris - Tuesday, November 1, 2005; Posted: 10:17 a.m. EST (15:17 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/01/france.riots.reut/index.html

"It was less serious than the previous nights," said an official at the Seine-Saint-Denis prefecture in Bobigny, which oversees Clichy-sous-Bois.

I Googled a map.

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

The excerpt posted in this thread identifies the site of the riots as Clichy-sous-Bois. (third paragraph) Bobigny is the location where the report was filed.

MattJ

My mistake.
Note to self: read article before opening mouth.

 

[CBL4]

Unfortunately, this type of thing happens when youths have no job prospects. France has a youth unemployment rate of 22%. Presumably it is much higher for immigrants and their children. Since they also face discrimination, they are quite likely to be angry.

France needs to change its law and culture to one that encourages new jobs. Presently they protects unions and the currently employed at the expense of youths and unemployed.

CBL

 

[Orwell]

I am writing a Hallmark Card to the mosque and to the teenagers' kin. So far it reads:


"Dear friends,
Though this could not have happened to a better set of individuals,"


That's as far as I got.

There's one in every village...

 

[Mycroft]

Before the tear gas grenade in the mosque, there's been two teenagers who died from electrocution while hiding from the police inside a power transformer, the police having chased them for unknown reasons (most likely for somethink like "breaches of the peace" aka being reported by tenants for sitting and talking in an appartment building hallway). Of course, Sarkozy immediately called the local residents "vermins", accused the dead teenagers of having fled the police after a burglary despite the fact that none had been reported that evening, etc., etc.

Okay, so you blame Sarkozy and the police, at least in part, for inflaming the population and causing the riots.

We expect at least a full week of violences, all sides egging each other and Sarkozy grandstanding.

Why a full week?

OTOH, there's absolutely no chance the rioting spreads to other parts of France, or even Paris for that matter.

Why not?

 

[Jas]

Before the tear gas grenade in the mosque, there's been two teenagers who died from electrocution while hiding from the police inside a power transformer....

I'm sure that the world is worse off for their loss. :eyeroll:

What special brand of stupidity does it take to hide in a power transformer?

 

[Cleon]

I'm sure that the world is worse off for their loss. :eyeroll:

What special brand of stupidity does it take to hide in a power transformer?

Often, that depends on the alternative.

 

[Bjorn]

I'm sure that the world is worse off for their loss. :eyeroll:

What special brand of stupidity does it take to hide in a power transformer?

Somewhat off topic (as you were): Do you think stupid people might as well be electrocuted because the world isn't worse off if they are? I have a relative who was born with Down's syndrom.

 

[Orwell]

I'm sure that the world is worse off for their loss. :eyeroll:

What special brand of stupidity does it take to hide in a power transformer?

You never done anything dangerously stupid, Jas? Not even once? Boy, imagine if people got electrocuted each time they say something dumb... Or judgemental!

 

[geni]

I'm sure that the world is worse off for their loss. :eyeroll:

What special brand of stupidity does it take to hide in a power transformer?

Despite school saftey vidios and the like a lot of the time it is posible to enter an inclosure containing a power transformer and survive. Back when I school there was a shortcut that some people used that involved climbing through an power transformer enclosure. Everyone who did it got away with it for as long as I was at the school.