What will Iran bomb first?

[Oliver]

So, no quotes? No proof? You just assert that it is true and it is true?

No, I chose the wrong word using "cheering". My apologies. But you
surely know what I meant nevertheless, don't you?

 

[RandFan]

But you surely know what I meant nevertheless, don't you?

There are people on this forum who are critical of the policies of many Islamic nations and the religion of Islam in general. Those people are far more objective in their criticism of Islam and Islamic nations than you are of America, IMO.

 

[Oliver]

It would seem that Iran is determined to do so. Of course they would kill many Muslims but retaliation doesn't take that into account does it.

"Seem" is a pretty vague interpretation, isn't it?

You completely ignore that throwing a nuke on Israel is self destruction
for Iran - or at least the Iranian Regime. You understand that, don't you?

So if you understand that, why do you think the Iranians DON'T understand
this simple equation? [And try to make a factual point other than "We're
rational, Iranians are not"]

And you might miss the broader Picture. It is NOT solely about Israel's
national Security, it's also about Iran's influence in the Middle East once
they WOULD! have Nukes. Something the US does not want since they
love the way they and Israel have things in control down there. [Added:
Obama calls it a "Game changer".]

And in contrast to Iran's self-destruction by using a Nuke against Israel,
retaliation is being tolerated for any country being attacked, depending
on the target.

 

[Oliver]

What lie?

What?

I've not a clue Oliver. What?

What?

Ahmadinejad said [in his controversial sentence about "wiping Israel off the map"] :

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Or to make you understand:

Ahmadinejad's own words: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Literal Translation:

"Khomeini said this regime occupying Jerusalem must from page of time vanish from."

See? No "wiping off the map Genocide" BS in there.

 

[RandFan]

See? No "wiping off the map Genocide" BS in there.

And if George Bush said that he regime of Iran would be wiped off the map? You would laugh and have a beer? BS and you know it.

If George Bush said that you KNOW that there would be outrage and that outrage would be quite appropriate. Ahmadinejad words are provocative and dangerous considering the stakes.

Don't be so gullible Oliver. Don't be so sycophantic to rush to this guys defense to parse his rhetoric.

Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear

"I tell you that with the unity and awareness of all the Islamic countries all the satanic powers will soon be destroyed," he said to a group of foreign visitors ahead of the 19th anniversary of the death of revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Oliver, honestly, how the hell is the "regime" of Israel supposed to disappear? Be honest here. Israel is a democracy with strong support of its citizens. How does Ahmadinejad propose to get rid of the regime without getting rid of the people? And why the rhetoric of "wiping off the map" or "destroying Israel".

You are dishonest to defend this.

 

[WildCat]

See? No "wiping off the map Genocide" BS in there.

The Iranians disagree with you, as I've pointed out to you numerous times.

Both the above are from an anti-Israel/pro=Palestinian rally in Tehran last March 9.

Below is a billboard in Tehran, from the New York Times:

Note Ahmedinejad never claims he's been mistranslated: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4384264.stm#

So take your translation and stick it where the sun doesn't shine Oliver.

 

[Oliver]

And if George Bush said that he regime of Iran would be wiped off the map? You would laugh and have a beer? BS and you know it.

If George Bush said that you KNOW that there would be outrage and that outrage would be quite appropriate. Ahmadinejad words are provocative and dangerous considering the stakes.

Don't be so gullible Oliver. Don't be so sycophantic to rush to this guys defense to parse his rhetoric.

Oliver, honestly, how the hell is the "regime" of Israel supposed to disappear? Be honest here. Israel is a democracy with strong support of its citizens. How does Ahmadinejad propose to get rid of the regime without getting rid of the people? And why the rhetoric of "wiping off the map" or "destroying Israel".

You are dishonest to defend this.

Nobody said "wiped off the map". So how is it relevant to the discussion?
And if Bush would use the term "wiped off the map", I actually would take
him serious given his history.

Again, he [Ahmadinejad] never said "wiping off the map". I just posted
the actual sentence in my last post.

And Ahmadinejad is talking about the Regime in it's current form, not
"Teh evil Joos":

"As soon as anyone objects to the behaviour of the Zionist regime, they're accused of being anti-Semitic, whereas the Jewish people are not Zionists," Ahmadinejad said. "Zionism is a political party that has nothing to do with Jewish people."

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE48P1JS20080926

Plus he seems to believe that the Regime will collapse, not being
nuked off the map, something you seem to be dreaming about:

"Today, the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse, and there is no way for it to get out of the cesspool created by itself and its supporters. The Islamic Republic of Iran, while fully respecting the resistance of the oppressed people of Palestine and expressing its all-out support for it, submits its humane solution based on a free referendum in Palestine for determining and establishing the type of state in the entire Palestinian lands to the distinguished Secretary General of the UN."

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1024097.html

 

[RandFan]

Nobody said "wiped off the map". So how is it relevant to the discussion?

He said it would be destroyed.

Plus he seems to believe that the Regime will collapse, not being nuked off the map, something you seem to be dreaming about:

See above.

 

[RandFan]

The Iranians disagree with you, as I've pointed out to you numerous times.

http://home.mindspring.com/~a.lo/20080310IranIsraelWiped01.jpg
http://home.mindspring.com/~a.lo/20080310IranIsraelWiped02.jpg
Both the above are from an anti-Israel/pro=Palestinian rally in Tehran last March 9.

Below is a billboard in Tehran, from the New York Times:
http://home.mindspring.com/~a.lo/zluhig.jpg

Note Ahmedinejad never claims he's been mistranslated: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4384264.stm#

So take your translation and stick it where the sun doesn't shine Oliver.

Oliver?

 

[Oliver]

The Iranians disagree with you, as I've pointed out to you numerous times.

So take your translation and stick it where the sun doesn't shine Oliver.

So your evidence for a threat for Israel are photos? Aren't truthers supposed to do that?

 

[RandFan]

So your evidence for a threat for Israel are photos? Aren't truthers supposed to do that?

I don't think so. When did they do that? Evidence?

 

[Oliver]

He said it would be destroyed.

Linky?

 

[RandFan]

Linky?

Post #165. Do you even bother to read the posts? Are you so certain that you are right that you don't care what others say?

Ahmadinejad says Israel will soon disappear

"I tell you that with the unity and awareness of all the Islamic countries all the satanic powers will soon be destroyed," he said to a group of foreign visitors ahead of the 19th anniversary of the death of revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

 

[Oliver]

Post #165. Do you even bother to read the posts? Are you so certain that you are right that you don't care what others say?

Well, so where did he say HE or IRAN will destroy it? Given his speech to the
UN, where he states that the Israeli Zionist Regime will collapse, wouldn't
it be destroyed if a collapse would happen?

Your link says nothing about a threat coming from Iran. Don't you see?

 

[RandFan]

Your link says nothing about a threat coming from Iran. Don't you see?

And if the US engaged in rhetoric that said that Iran would soon be destroyed. Are you honestly saying that wouldn't be provacative?

 

[Oliver]

And if the US engaged in rhetoric that said that Iran would soon be destroyed. Are you honestly saying that wouldn't be provacative?

Yes, provocative indeed given the fact that Iran did NOTHING to the US
PLUS the US does have a pretty ugly history of converting Rhetoric into
Policy.

Would I support any aggressive intervening policies based on provocative rhetoric?

No.

[You may keep in mind that it is Israel and the US provoking Iran for
decades now being evildoers, terrorstates etc. So I'm actually surprised
that Ahmadinejad is pretty calm, visits the US and talks to Jews and
Media within the US.]

The US not even attending his speech at the UN, I mean IN THEIR OWN
COUNTRY! on the other hand...

 

[WildCat]

So your evidence for a threat for Israel are photos?

The photos show how the Iranian's themselves translated Khomeini's remarks (which Ahmedinejad quoted) into English, and the BBC link shows Ahmedinejad defending those remarks without once claiming he'd been misquoted due to translation error.

I'm pretty sure the Iranians can do a Farsi-English translation better than you can Oliver.

 

[RandFan]

Yes, provocative indeed given the fact that Iran did NOTHING to the US PLUS the US does have a pretty ugly history of converting Rhetoric into Policy.

How is that an answer. You are now moving the goal posts.

 

[FireGarden]

Oliver, honestly, how the hell is the "regime" of Israel supposed to disappear?

Why did you quote an article which again makes clear that Ahmadinejad is talking about the regime?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080602124328.f6eyi8y1&show_article=1

"I must announce that the Zionist regime (Israel), with a 60-year record of genocide, plunder, invasion and betrayal is about to die and will soon be erased from the geographical scene," he said.

As to how... It is precisely because Israel claims to be a democracy.

Olmert has gone on record as saying that "Israel is done for" if there is no two state solution. You cannot have apartheid and call yourself a democracy. Israel's control of the West Bank and Gaza -- the seperation (apartheid) fence -- is an injustice that more and more people are taking issue with.

Carter's book "Peace not apartheid" brought the wider issue to the attention of many. The lives of Palestinians are being controlled by a government they cannot vote for.

Olmert's words:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/929439.html

"If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Haaretz Wednesday, the day the Annapolis conference ended in an agreement to try to reach a Mideast peace settlement by the end of 2008.

"The Jewish organizations, which were our power base in America, will be the first to come out against us," Olmert said, "because they will say they cannot support a state that does not support democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents."

So even Olmert says that Israel is at risk.
Do you think the two-state solution will ever come to pass? I don't. So I see Olmert's warning as a weaker version of Ahmadinejad's: the state of Israel will disappear.

And why the rhetoric of "wiping off the map" or "destroying Israel".

The "wipe of the map" line is from a translation by an Iranian agency. The phrase translated does not have the same warlike meaning as the English phrase.

The USSR was wiped out: "Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out." (See later link)

So the USSR has been wiped out, has disappeared, vanished from the page of time. It is no more. Thanks to Gorbachev for pulling the trigger, dropping the hammer or otherwise beginning the destruction and annihilation of the political entity once (but no more) known as the USSR.

No genocide.
No war.
No military attack.

That is the language used by Ahmadinejad. Read the experts. Look at the context which is even given by sites like Jihadwatch -- they know that mentioning "regime" and comparisons to the USSR makes no difference to the people who are determined to believe that Ahmadinejad is the next Hitler.

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/014390.php
"Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out"


ETA: there is quite a bit of analysis here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

 

[DC]

So your evidence for a threat for Israel are photos? Aren't truthers supposed to do that?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1110748deefa7eb37a.jpg[/qimg]

lol

but i did not dear to say anything about photoshop.