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What We Saw - Bob & Bri (Not what we heard)

Thanks for the nominations!

David, It is my pleasure to share my story.

9/11 was a day that messed me up emotionally, mentally, for a long long time. And while my story is a little compelling, its NOTHING compared to what many many others went through.

This forum, SLC, and a few others are really great for me. At least I can confront the whackos on-line. I couldn't do it in person. I'm not strong enough to do it in person. I'd lose it and end up beating the pooh out of them, and what good would I do anyone in jail.
 
jujigatami said:
You are welcome to ask me any questions you may have.
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jujigatami,

Thank you very much for being so open.

Obviously there is no "canned" response for this so I will say it the best I can. I am very sorry about what you had to experience and the memories of it.

I don't have any questions.

Russell
 
jujigatami said:
...and what good would I do anyone in jail.
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...Quite a lot of good, if you wore that Borat thong. :D
I only used a portion of your account for my WTC 7 paper. I'd like to use more of it for my LC Guide, if that's okay. Thanks for sharing it with everyone.
 
Gravy,

Of course its OK.

ANYTHING I can do to help the cause!

One day I will be able to confront the nutters in person. I was a debater in HS, and a pretty darn good one too.

But alas, I know myself, and its still just too soon.

Russell,
I really was hoping you had some questions. I saw both planes hit. I can give you firsthand account that I heard absolutely no explosions before the towers come down. I saw WTC7 Leaning over, hours before it fell.

Oh and Gravy, I only wear the borat thong for my wife, but even she doesn't like it.
 
jujigatami said:
Gravy,

Of course its OK.

ANYTHING I can do to help the cause!

One day I will be able to confront the nutters in person. I was a debater in HS, and a pretty darn good one too.

But alas, I know myself, and its still just too soon.

Russell,
I really was hoping you had some questions. I saw both planes hit. I can give you firsthand account that I heard absolutely no explosions before the towers come down. I saw WTC7 Leaning over, hours before it fell.

Oh and Gravy, I only wear the borat thong for my wife, but even she doesn't like it.
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jujigatimi,

I believe both planes hit. I am convinced now the North Tower had no prior explosions other than the collapse sounds for at least 18 seconds. I am waiting for the final WTC7 report to come out before I speculate too much more on that.

If you didn't hear any explosions in the area I take your word. I also have read many accounts of explosions in the area from the firefighters inside and outside the building as well as others. Did you hear any explosions throughout the morning at any point?

I just posted a thread on what sounds like an explosion possibly near WTC7. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67149

I would not presume to challenge any aspect of your account as I was not there. I do have to balance everything including other accounts however.

Russell
 
Russell,

Now you've hit the nail directly on the head.

Something I've been afraid to write for fear of it being taken out of context.

There were LOTS of explosions throughout the mornong. While I was watching the towers fireballs would shoot out of the holes in the buildings and there would be an enormous "whoosh" like if you would light a gas grill, but a million times bigger.

When the fireballs would fly out, I felt the heat on my face and it was intense.

There were all knids of pops and cracks that I'm sure were alot louder if you were inside the towers, but no one, and I mean no one there had even the slightest feeling that these sounds were bombs! No one.

Look, I've seen other big building fires (when you live in the city, you see these things) and those other fires were almost identical to this, but just on a much smaller scale. I remember watching a Brownstone fire years ago where the windows blew out knocking a fireman off of a ladder. No explosives there either.

I also worked very close to the WTC in '93 (130 Cedar st. to be exact) and I heard and felt that blast. The 93 blast was HUGE. A HUGE BOOM!! There was NOTHING like that on 9/11, and the 93 blast didn't even take the towers down.

9/11 was totally different. There were no explosions like bomb explosions (like the 93 bombing or even like loud fireworks) but there were lots of other exlplosions like when you light a gas grill.

I'm far from an explosive expert, so I don't think I'm describing this accurately. Fire was blowing out windows, there were lots of loud sounds, many of which I would characterize as explosions, but there were none with any concussive force. Like I said, there weren't any even as strong as fireworks.
 
jujigatami said:
After a while I decided to go back upstairs to our office. Power in our building was fine, and there was no damage to our building. The lobby was like a refugee center. So I took my team back upstairs. A little while later the dust settled and we could see outside. It was crazy, it looked like a snowstorm had hit. 6-8 inches of grayish white dust everywhere. It was eerie. No one knew what to do. I decided that I was going to stay put and listen to the news.

...

You are welcome to ask me any questions you may have.
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I'd like to get some more info on the amount of dust you saw that day. The 6-8 inches you mention is deeper than other reports I've seen, and I was wondering if that was just a local effect, perhaps because of drifting, or if the layer was that deep over a larger area.

Since you seem to have walked over a lot of area on the day, what was your impression of the amount of dust in general?

Thanks in advance!
 
Jujigatami:

Thank you for sharing the tale of what has to be one of the most terrifying days of your life. It took alot of courage to be so open and forthright with your account.

The account you give is so inspiring, I cannot even begin to tell you. It has re-energized me with regards to researching and discussing the 9/11 attacks. The last few days, I have been kind of pulled away from the whole thing, half by other activities, half by shear exhaustion from dealing with the repetitive, non-stop theories and whacko comments we see here all the time. Your account, with perfect timing, has reminded me once again, the reason I come here and post/discuss/debate.

I Think if we do not already have such a thread, that we should create a "9/11 stories" thread, and post this there.

TAM
 
It was about 6-8 inches everywhere, but I sure didn't measure it, so I could be off a little. It looked like a major snowstorm had hit. Since I was south of the site, we got more of it when the south tower fell than when the north fell.

My guesstimate is that there was about a average of 8 inches on Broadway. More in some places, less in others.

There were drifts of dust just like snowdrifts, and buildings facing the towers had a large buildup on one side and less on the other side.

When I said I looked out, I was looking out on Broadway, in front of my building. That is actually a good distance away from the WTC. The way our building is, you didn't have a really good view of the street in the back. Its blocked by shorter buildings. To get an idea of the depth of the powder, you needed to see the street. So I had to go to the front of the building (our office went through the floor).

As for my impression of the amount of dust... there was a ◊◊◊◊ ton of it. It was everywhere, for blocks and blocks, and it was deep. I had to walk through it, and even several blocks east and south of the towers, it was well over my ankles.

It seriously looked like a blizzard had hit.
 
jujigatami said:
It was about 6-8 inches everywhere, but I sure didn't measure it, so I could be off a little. It looked like a major snowstorm had hit. Since I was south of the site, we got more of it when the south tower fell than when the north fell.

My guesstimate is that there was about a average of 8 inches on Broadway. More in some places, less in others.

There were drifts of dust just like snowdrifts, and buildings facing the towers had a large buildup on one side and less on the other side.

When I said I looked out, I was looking out on Broadway, in front of my building. That is actually a good distance away from the WTC. The way our building is, you didn't have a really good view of the street in the back. Its blocked by shorter buildings. To get an idea of the depth of the powder, you needed to see the street. So I had to go to the front of the building (our office went through the floor).

As for my impression of the amount of dust... there was a ◊◊◊◊ ton of it. It was everywhere, for blocks and blocks, and it was deep. I had to walk through it, and even several blocks east and south of the towers, it was well over my ankles.

It seriously looked like a blizzard had hit.
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Okay, thanks! It looks like I'll have to re-adjust my calculations. I guess I need a good map now, too :)
 
I don't know how you can ever get any accuracy out of calculations like that.

You need to know how far the dust settled. I can tell you it went pretty far east down Fulton st. But how far, I really don't remember. By the time I got to the Brooklyn Bridge, South Street Seaport area, the dust was very very light, but still noticable on windows and cars. You really couldn't see it on the street any more than the usual city grime.

I have no idea how far north or south it went and how heavy it was there. But it did go far. Plus you need to take in to account the roofs of buildings and their various heights, and open buildings like parking lots, one that I know had several inches on all of its levels. And like I said, there were drifts of dust all over the place, and some were pretty big.

Good luck calculating how many square feet the dust covered. I can't imagine where to start.
 
T.A.M. said:
Jujigatami:

Thank you for sharing the tale of what has to be one of the most terrifying days of your life. It took alot of courage to be so open and forthright with your account.

The account you give is so inspiring, I cannot even begin to tell you. It has re-energized me with regards to researching and discussing the 9/11 attacks. The last few days, I have been kind of pulled away from the whole thing, half by other activities, half by shear exhaustion from dealing with the repetitive, non-stop theories and whacko comments we see here all the time. Your account, with perfect timing, has reminded me once again, the reason I come here and post/discuss/debate.

I Think if we do not already have such a thread, that we should create a "9/11 stories" thread, and post this there.

TAM
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TAM,

You're welcome. It was by far the worst day of my life. Like I said in my post, the absolute worst part was when I was on the bridge. I really thought I was going to die. Your life really does flash before your eyes. And while I try to live a good life, it isn't a pretty picture. I don't think it ever will be. I saw all of the things I wish I could have done differently, I saw my unborn baby, I saw my wife in her wedding dress. It was truly awful.

I feel selfish even saying that was the worst part. With all of the horror I saw, all of the suffering, and for me, the worst part was thinking I was going to die... when 3000 other people just ACTUALLY died. It sounds silly.

Anyway, Hang in there and keep fighting the good fight. One day, there should be a debunker convention. I'd like to buy you all a drink.

ETA: My wife in her wedding dress was a VERY pretty picture, so was my son. I mean that overall, I don't think anyone's life flashing before them will be pretty.
 
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I remember when I was in a car accident. I lost control of my car coming home from a pediatric rotation. I was going about 100kph (60 mph) and took the turn too fast. My car shot off the road, and flipped about 8 or 9 times, landing on its side. I remember it like yesterday. I didnt see too much in terms of "life before my eyes" visions, but I remember how long it took for the car to stop, and I remember thinking, as the car rolled over,

"When is the top going to cave in and crack my neck to pieces"

Luckily it never did, but let me tell you, terrifying is not the word.

TAM
 
jujigatami,

I have the ultimate respect for your experience.

Do you want to discuss this? If so, I am willing but I have no desire to drag your emotions around in the process. I would also prefer not to be the CT that gets the brunt of your justified emotions.

Russell
 
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jujigatami said:
I don't know how you can ever get any accuracy out of calculations like that.

...

Good luck calculating how many square feet the dust covered. I can't imagine where to start.
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Well, I'm mostly trying to get a rough estimate at best. As you said, noone was running around measuring the stuff.

I'm interested in showing the "99.9% of the WTC turned to dust" guys that they're completely out to lunch. Even just assuming a uniform layer of dust, we get percentages much lower than what they claim. I haven't yet re-done my calcs, but even with 6-8 inches, we'd still have less than 20% of the mass as dust.

I'm mostly interested in getting the best estimates I can, so as to provide them with the fewest opportunities to attack my estimates.

Once again, thanks for your input.
 
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