What to tell the kids?

MickinEngland said:
But if you dismiss the Bible, you'd also logically have to dismiss
Confucius's 'The Analects', the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita and Upanishads, the Taoist Tao-te-Ching,the Buddhist Tripitaka,the Zoroastrian Zend-Avesta etc etc.
I mean, why single out the bible?
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The bible gets singled out more often because of the more militant proselityzing that goes along with it.

Who said anything about accepting any of those books as truth?
 
MickinEngland said:
Nah we know enough about the gospel-writers to be able to do a "This is Your Life" TV show about them.. ;)

Matthew the disciple, formerly Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27) son of Alpheus, was formerly a tax collector (Luke 5:29-30) one of the 12 apostles handpicked by Jesus (Matthew 9:9), he wrote his gospel between c.60 and 80 AD after Mark wrote his first.

Mark (Latin, "Marcus") also called John, Mark was a cousin of Barnabas (Colossians 4:10), a disciple of Peter (1 Peter 5:13) a helpful co-worker of Paul (2 Timothy 4:11), wrote his gospel c.60AD not long after some Apostolic Letters were written: i.e., James, Galatians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, and Romans. His mother was one of the Marys (Acts 12:12) from an influential and probably wealthy family, and so some speculated that the last supper was held in their home and that he was the young man in Mark 14:51-52 which is not in the other accounts.

Luke, a doctor (2 Tim. 4:11) and a gentile convert (Luke 1:2) probably by Paul who became his traveling companion (Acts 17:1; 20:5, 6-21:18 ). He wrote his gospel c.65 AD; and

John the disciple, (John 13:23) son of Zebedee, the brother of James the "greater" (Matthew 4:21; 10:2; Mark 1:19; 3:17; 10:35) wrote his gospel c.95AD, the last to be written before Revelation. Also from a wealthy family (Mark 1:20; Luke 5:3; John 19:27). His mother was probably Salome (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40). He was one of the closest disciples to Jesus among the twelve (Matthew 17:1; 26:37; Mark 5:37; 13:3). He was zealous (Matthew 20:20-24; Mark 3:17; 10:35-41; Luke 9:49, 54). He became one the leaders of the Jerusalem Church (Acts 15:6; Galatians 2:9) and of the seven churches in Asia (Revelation 1:11). He was banished to the island of Patmos where he wrote Revelation.
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Um, you can't use the text in question when trying to verify the veracity of said text. There needs to be another source.
 
fowlsound said:
You didn't answer my question.

Why do you enjoy lying to children?
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I think he likes lying to children because his god likes child scarifies (see the story of Abraham, and the prophet Elijah ) and lying to children is about as close as the church can legally get to that these days... ;)

Atheists may make baby Jesus cry, but children’s tears are a like a delicacy to God, so really we’re giving Yahweh what he craves.
 
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I never knew Jesus had blue eyes.

And MickinEngland, if you lie to children you make baby Jesus cry.
 
MickinEngland said:
But if you dismiss the Bible, you'd also logically have to dismiss
Confucius's 'The Analects', the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita and Upanishads, the Taoist Tao-te-Ching,the Buddhist Tripitaka,the Zoroastrian Zend-Avesta etc etc.
I mean, why single out the bible?
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How about this: We learn from the moral, useful parts of the bible and all those other books and dismiss the mythological parts.

Are you cool with that?
 
(Uh ... Mick? A word, mate... These guys ain't buying it. Trust me. Without material proof, no amount of anecdotal 'evidence' will convince them. Tell ya what; come up with an independent source of testimony of even one miracle, and you might get one or two of these blokes pause for thought. Otherwise, be satisifed that you have completed half of the Great Commission and move along. No sense wasting your wisdom on this crew. You know, "cast ye not thy pearls before swine" and all that. G'day!)

Come now gents, if a man believes that he is telling the truth, then how can he be accused of lying? This legal argument alone absolves anyone of the crime of perjury (or for that matter, the sin of false witness). Mick believes that what he is telling his kids is true, just as any Atheist believes that what he tells his kids is true.

What to tell the kids? Here's what:

"Mommy and daddy believe that there [is|is not] a supreme supernatural being, yet we respect your right to decide for yourself. We [will|will not] send you to a house of worship, but if you should ever decide otherwise, we will support you in that decision. In the meantime, we expect you to study hard in school so that you can make reasoned and informed choices without fear and with a minimum of error. And we love you, too."

Fair enough? Or should we send all kids to the same [secular|religious] brainwashing camp, regardless of their parents' freedom of choice in the children's upbringing?

-Fnord of Dyscordia-
 
Fnord said:
What to tell the kids? Here's what:

"Mommy and daddy believe that there [is|is not] a supreme supernatural being, yet we respect your right to decide for yourself. We [will|will not] send you to a house of worship, but if you should ever decide otherwise, we will support you in that decision. In the meantime, we expect you to study hard in school so that you can make reasoned and informed choices without fear and with a minimum of error. And we love you, too."

Fair enough? Or should we send all kids to the same [secular|religious] brainwashing camp, regardless of their parents' freedom of choice in the children's upbringing?
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Nominated.
 
mattlodder said:
I think that's the atheist position in a nutshell, Michael.
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No, I don't think that, since practically every atheist here will tell you they disbelieve in all gods. Mick (who is probably Irish, but may or not be named Michael) seems to think we pick on the bible. I can see why he might think that, but really it is only because we mostly see Christian theists here.
 
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Spindrift said:
Um, you can't use the text in question when trying to verify the veracity of said text. There needs to be another source.
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How about this one -
[Koran 2.253] "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa[Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends"
 
Tricky said:
I've led a good and upright life and I have little to be ashamed of. If I meet Jesus and he tells me I have sinned because I was misled by the lack of evidence for his divinity, and because he and Dad did a p**s-poor job of delivering their message, then I'll not only look him in the eye, I'll spit in his eye.
Sic semper tyrannis.
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Which part of this spoken by Jesus makes you want to spit in his eye? -

"Love God and your neighbour, this is the whole law,
Love one another, love your enemies,
bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,
greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends,
Hungry and you fed me,
Thirsty and you gave me drink,
A stranger and you took me in,
Naked and you clothed me,
ill and you tended me,
In prison and you visited me.
When you did this to others,
you did it to me.
You're my friends if you follow me, I don't call you servants, I call you friends.
In my fathers kingdom are many mansions,I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you,then come back to take you there with me"
 
Tricky said:
No, I don't think that, since practically every atheist here will tell you they disbelieve in all gods. Mick (who is probably Irish, but may or not be named Michael) seems to think we pick on the bible. I can see why he might think that, but really it is only because we mostly see Christian theists here.
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Well, his intention and mine in using that phraseology were clearly different - he's saying "why single out the bible [for criticism]", whereas atheists fill those parentheses with "for belief".
 
MickinEngland said:
Which part of this spoken by Jesus makes you want to spit in his eye? -

"Love God and your neighbour, this is the whole law,
Love one another, love your enemies,
bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,
greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends,
Hungry and you fed me,
Thirsty and you gave me drink,
A stranger and you took me in,
Naked and you clothed me,
ill and you tended me,
In prison and you visited me.
When you did this to others,
you did it to me.
You're my friends if you follow me, I don't call you servants, I call you friends.
In my fathers kingdom are many mansions,I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you,then come back to take you there with me"
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That's like using Star Trek fan fiction to prove that Captin Kirk is (will be) real...
 
MickinEngland said:
How about this one -
[Koran 2.253] "We have made some of these apostles to excel the others, among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by many degrees of rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa[Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends"
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This is Bin Laden's belief. The jews were god's chosen people but they were evil and corrupt so they fell out of favour, to be replaced by the christians. The christians became evil and corrupt so they too fell out of favour with god and were replaced by the muslims.

Bin Laden's stated mission on earth is to make sure muslims do not fall out of favour and he will kill you, me and everyone else to prevent it. Of course, the Vatican did it for years too.
 
qayak said:
Bin Laden's stated mission on earth is to make sure muslims do not fall out of favour and he will kill you, me and everyone else to prevent it. Of course, the Vatican did it for years too.
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Yes, but nowadays catholics are basically alright but they waste far too much time praying to Jesus's mum and to 'saints' even though the bible says don't talk to the dead.
And their churches and homes are so full of cheap holy bric-abrac that they look like fancy goods novelty warehouses.. ;)
Hey, poor Fredo in the Godfather went out fishing in a boat, unaware that the guy with him was a hitman. He even tried praying to Mary for a catch -
http://www.thegodfathertrilogy.com/gf2/ram/hailmary.ram
 
So you make fun of the catholic mythology but probably won't like it if people make fun of yours.
 
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