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What the hell was going on at Frankfurt?

I've actually started a discussion about that in the thread about the timer fragment being fabricated, because that's where it seems to fit. I agree, de Braeckeleer's conclusion doesn't follow at all. I still think there's something fishy there though.

Rolfe.
 
If a timer is set to activate in x hours, does local time, incorporating daylight savings, etc, really come into it? I mean x hours is x hours, yeah?


Well, no. If it's seven in the morning on Malta, and you decided you wanted the bomb to go off at eight in the evening on PA103, you might if you weren't thinking properly set the time elapsed to 13 hours. When of course it should be 14 hours to allow for the time zone difference. Setting for 13 hours would get you seven in the evening, ship's time.

There are a few things wrong with this though. The first one is that this is Megrahi and Fhimah we're supposed to be talking about, who worked in the airline industry and might be expected to remember a time zone difference - or even just work in GMT all the time.

The second is that even a single hour isn't enough to make this plot sane. Certainly, if the bomb had gone off at eight, with the plane leaving on time as it did, the explosion would have been over the ocean. But that's not the point. It's about minimising he risk of it going off on the tarmac. Marquise's experience shows that even five hours delay can happen. The question with a timer bomb like that isn't how soon you can set it off after take-off, it's how late do you want to leave it. Do you really want to aim for mid-Atlantic, if so go for ten or eleven GMT, or if you don't mind an explosion over land, go for midnight or one in the morning. Even eight is an unnecessary risk of a tarmac damp squib.

The third is that the 38-minute explosion falls right in the window where you'd expect a Khreesat-style barometric device to explode. Fancy that. What a coincidence.

Rolfe.
 
Goofing by an hour when there's the entire Atlantic Ocean to aim at? nah. I think even I'd have added on a few extra hours.

Having digested a few of the other discussions and threads the most obvious conclusion, for me to draw regards the actual event over Lockerbie, is a Kreeshat-style IED loaded at Heathrow. By who and for what reason I'll leave for others to theorise about.


CTB
 
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I'm reading Emerson and Duffy (The Fall of Pan Am 103, published 1990) at the moment, and this thing about the flight being late seems to become a meme really early.

At 6.00 P.M., its scheduled departure time, Flight 103, the clipper Maid of the Seas, had been pushed back from Heathrow's newly remodelled Terminal 3. Under its own power, it had begun taxiing toward the airport's main east-west runways to await a takeoff slot from the air traffic controllers in the tower. Heathrow is typically a mess at that time of night, with too many planes coming and going. Many evenings, the 103 to New York is held up on the taxiway. It had happened again tonight, the result a twenty-five-minute delay. [....]

Since he had arrived in Lockerbie, Boyd had been given more information about the Pan Am flight. He had learned of the twenty-five-minute delay at Heathrow. A student of police work, Boyd had recalled the downing of an Air-India jet some years earlier. Sikh terrorists had placed he bomb on board in Vancouver, but it had not detonated until it was over water. No one was ever prosecuted.
"If Flight 103 had left Heathrow on time," Boyd said later, "it would have blown up in the sky over the Atlantic, and there would have been no evidence."


This is so full of wrong I hardly know where to start. The flight was scheduled to depart (that is, push off from the stand) at 6pm. Its wheels didn't leave the runway until 6.25pm. Correct. That means it was 25 minutes late? What are these guys smoking?

This reasoning implies that normally, planes magically levitate into the air the very minute they push off from the stand. We know that doesn't happen. Richard Dawson, the air traffic controller at Heathrow, was asked about this at Zeist.

Q Can you tell us, please, what the average time is that an aircraft might take from leaving the gate to being airborne?
A It very much depends on where the gate is in relation to the departure runway. But on average you can say a minimum of 15 minutes and a maximum of 25 -- 20 to 25. But it also depends how many aircraft there are taxiing for departure at any one time.


So, common sense tells us that an aircraft takes some time to become airborne after pushing off from the stand at its scheduled time. ATC confirms this to be at least 15 minutes, with 25 minutes still within the normal range. Emerson and Duffy even say, while they're trying to claim that the on-time PA103 was 25 minutes late, that it was commonplace for the flight to be "held up on the taxiway". What do they think they're trying to say?

Then, even agreeing that this is being said before the words "Khreesat" or "barometric timer" have been uttered, why does anyone think this is a sensible line of argument? This wasn't a quick inter-island hop, it was a flight of SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS. E&D (and John Boyd) think it's perfectly reasonable to set a timing device for only an hour after the scheduled departure time, on the assumption that it will inevitably sprint off the blocks (even though it usually doesn't), and be "in the sky over the Atlantic" by then? Really?

Look at the bloody flight path, people! The orange dot is Lockerbie.

flightpath.jpg


Whether it had been 10 minutes earlier or 25 minutes earlier, there is no chance at all that that plane would have been "over the Atlantic" at 7.03pm.

But hey, that wasn't the most usual flight path for transatlantic jets to JFK. Most of them take a course closer to the Great Circle route, over Ireland. This one took the more northerly course that night because of the weather. Here's the commoner course.

overeire.jpg


Might have dropped in the Irish Sea. Maybe. That would have been split-second timing though, and the long debris trail would still have been largely over Wales. No way would it have been "over the Atlantic" on that course either.

Now look at the full length of the most common route to JFK.

greatcircle.jpg


On what planet does it make any sense at all to set a timer for the first hour of the flight time?

And yet we get this rubbish about the terrorists expected the plane to vanish over the ocean, and that's why they were careless about the labels on the clothes and so on.... Even the BBC Conspiracy Files programme, which seemed to figure out that a plane scheduled to depart at 6pm and getting its wheels off the runway at 6.25pm isn't "25 minutes late", still claimed it was ten minutes late, and that made all the difference, another ten minutes and it would have crossed the coastline....

The plane WASN'T LATE. And even if it had got away as early as was humanly possible, it couldn't have been over the Atlantic, on that course. Nor could it have been over the Atlantic on the Shannon (Ireland) course. Look at that huge expanse of ocean that was in front of it. Hours and hours.

But we're supposed to believe there's nothing at all strange about the time of the explosion?

Rolfe.
 
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I'm reading Emerson and Duffy (The Fall of Pan Am 103, published 1990) at the moment, and this thing about the flight being late seems to become a meme really early.

Rolfe.



The 'late departure' makes it's first appearance, AFAICT, on the morning of the 22nd December 1988. It's one of the things told to the audience of BBC's Breakfast Time at 8.00am.

It's on Youtube: http://youtu.be/RLOovFTMlBo

at about 3'45" in.


It's one of these things that's easy to repeat and without recourse to the transcripts, or know people that have, there are not many folks who are going to find out these details otherwise. What may appear common knowledge to those clued-in can often be an obscure triviality to the wider world at large.

Perhaps it's known that the Frankfurt flight to Heathrow was late. It still doesn't add up because PA103 pushes off the stand on schedule.

I would venture a guess that books about terrible suffering are sold on the basis of the quantity of suffering involved and are not so much bothered about the minutaie of the accident/disaster.


CTB
 
I note that one of the questions David Johnston asked Pan Am for his 1989 book was, was PA103 late, and if so by how much. The answer was that PA103 left on time. Which is absolutely true. There isn't the slightest suggestion at Zeist that the plane was late, and Dawson's evidence nips any such suggestion in the bud. The timing of the explosion is simply not raised as an anomaly in relation to the MST-13 timer.

But still it goes on. Jim Swire keeps saying the plane was "a little bit late". I was talking to David Benson in an Edinburgh pub, and told him the plane left on time. He said, what, you mean it took off at six o'clock?

:hb:

I explained that no, it left the stand at 6.03 and its wheels left the runway at 6.25. This is not "late" within the meaning of the term, when considering a transatlantic flight. Indeed, it's quite notably punctual. In fact, so bloody punctual that they left without a passenger, who was running to the gate at that very minute.

I have no idea if he dropped the part about the plane being late from subsequent performances of his play though.

I hadn't realised it went right back to the first hours of the disaster. It's an urban myth - you just can't dislodge it. Maybe it needs an entry on snopes.com!

Rolfe.
 

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