What the hell happened to the Republican party?

[Eddie Dane]

I'm a European and I tend to favour the Democrats.
But to be fair: I've never been an America hater and I've never seen the Republican party in a typical European (negative) light.

OK, so they're pro-gun. I'm a rarity: a European gun owner (and nut).
If I lived in the states I'd have a bigger arsenal than Hunter S. Thompson and a third world country combined.

OK, they're anti-abortion. I hate the idea of abortion, but I'm pro choice.
I can see the arguments against abortion and I can agree to disagree.

OK, they're Christians. I'm an Atheist, but I stem from a Christian (and Jewish) tradition.
For all practical purposes, You can say that I have a Christian moral code.

But what I see and read these days in depressingly undeniable:
The GOP has become the party of the stupid. I can hardly believe that an intelligent person would still dare to be associated with them.
Even if this person was in principle a pro-life Christian gun nut who thought that the last Iraq invasion was a good idea.

In fact the GOP seems to have become a very dangerous phenomenon in a democracy:
A marketing machine that connects to a voter base through advertising and slogans, whilst the actual party has no connection to any kind of reality.

I'm truly deeply shocked by the image that FOX and others are creating of Obama. I see GOP speeches where the audience boos when the NYT is mentioned. I see Republicans asking McCain when he'll "take the gloves off".
What the seem to mean is: "confront Obama head-on with his terrorist connections etc". But McCain will never do that because he cannot go in a national debate and make a fool of himself by going all Rush Limbaugh. Obama would simply clobber him to death with his own lies.

McCain seemed like a (for me) acceptable Republican. Perhaps even detached enough from GWB to claim he had very little to do with running the country into the ground during the last two administrations.
Then he came up with Sarah Palin. A woman who is perceived to win a debate if she manages to deliver memorised slogans without stuttering.
Or if her opponent gets all "unfair", and puts pressure on her, poor thing.

What kind of standards are these? This is one of the most demanding management jobs on the planet!!!!!!

I see a terrible rift through America, one that cannot be bridged.

Has the GOP truly become the party of the stupid, the reality challenged and the shameless?

Please tell I'm wrong. Please tell me that there is a rational wing to this party that has been sidetracked the last eight years.

 

[Tailgater]

Please tell I'm wrong. Please tell me that there is a rational wing to this party that has been sidetracked the last eight years.

There are still many fiscally conservative Republicans (economics and foreign policy are the only things I vote on), but you will only find them at the state and local levels. The Republicans from the mid 90s paved the way for Bush, who pitched the "Contract of America" in the trash and became a President of self-righteous moral ideals and less on good management of the country.

Abortion, gun rights, gay marriage.....etc are all issues that bog down the Fed with things that should be left to the states. I know someone that votes purely because they are pro-life. That's just f'ed up. I personally don't care about any of those issues. I want a country that's going to be around for my kids and not be a big third world country. So we end up with politicians in Washington fighting over special interest issues that know jack on how to be leaders or good business managers (yes, running the country, a degree in economics or business should be more important than political science).

 

[Denver]

You're assessment is pretty much correct. And it's a matter of growth and evolution.

The party's power original came from people and ideas. But, people who are reasonable, middle of the road, balanced skeptical thinkers are less likely to donate money and resources to someone preaching a middle of the road cause, than are extremists to donate money and resources to an extremist cause. For the former, the feeling is often that the truth will come out in the end. To the extremist, there is no patience, and people must be made to see the truth now, before it's too late.

So, over time, the ideas in the party that are reasonable and balanced, are underfunded, and the extremist ideas are bulked up by larger donations. This happens, I believe, no matter what group or party we are talking about.

And there is the additional problem of power corrupting. I don't think this corruption is obvious to the people being affected. We all have a sense of the "line" that separates acceptable behavior from unacceptable. Sometimes a situation confronts us that puts an action on that line, and we have to work it out where it should be: acceptable or not. Sometimes we work it out on our own, and sometimes we look for other examples or advice to help. Sometimes we decide the line is too far one way or the other, and nudge it over.

The more power someone has, not only do they face more of these examples, but they will feel because they have acquired or been given the power they have, that they can be trusted to make the right decision on their own. Over time, the line moves more and more. And eventually, they are routinely making corrupt decisions, yet are pretty much convinced they are good, right, ethical decision, in the big picture.

That's where I think much of politics has fallen today. Many good people, blinded by the trust given to them, feeling it is their responsibility to handle difficult and questionable issues on their own, and due to their own weaknesses, as well as the environment of previous corruption around them, going down the wrong roads, but thinking they are still on the right track.

 

[Oliver]

I'm a European and I tend to favour the Democrats.
But to be fair: I've never been an America hater and I've never seen the Republican party in a typical European (negative) light.

OK, so they're pro-gun. I'm a rarity: a European gun owner (and nut).
If I lived in the states I'd have a bigger arsenal than Hunter S. Thompson and a third world country combined.

OK, they're anti-abortion. I hate the idea of abortion, but I'm pro choice.
I can see the arguments against abortion and I can agree to disagree.

OK, they're Christians. I'm an Atheist, but I stem from a Christian (and Jewish) tradition.
For all practical purposes, You can say that I have a Christian moral code.

But what I see and read these days in depressingly undeniable:
The GOP has become the party of the stupid. I can hardly believe that an intelligent person would still dare to be associated with them.
Even if this person was in principle a pro-life Christian gun nut who thought that the last Iraq invasion was a good idea.

In fact the GOP seems to have become a very dangerous phenomenon in a democracy:
A marketing machine that connects to a voter base through advertising and slogans, whilst the actual party has no connection to any kind of reality.

I'm truly deeply shocked by the image that FOX and others are creating of Obama. I see GOP speeches where the audience boos when the NYT is mentioned. I see Republicans asking McCain when he'll "take the gloves off".
What the seem to mean is: "confront Obama head-on with his terrorist connections etc". But McCain will never do that because he cannot go in a national debate and make a fool of himself by going all Rush Limbaugh. Obama would simply clobber him to death with his own lies.

McCain seemed like a (for me) acceptable Republican. Perhaps even detached enough from GWB to claim he had very little to do with running the country into the ground during the last two administrations.
Then he came up with Sarah Palin. A woman who is perceived to win a debate if she manages to deliver memorised slogans without stuttering.
Or if her opponent gets all "unfair", and puts pressure on her, poor thing.

What kind of standards are these? This is one of the most demanding management jobs on the planet!!!!!!

I see a terrible rift through America, one that cannot be bridged.

Has the GOP truly become the party of the stupid, the reality challenged and the shameless?

Please tell I'm wrong. Please tell me that there is a rational wing to this party that has been sidetracked the last eight years.

Most sarcastic post ever. Nominated.

 

[Lanzy]

I don't see that the pubs have changed at all, seem like they are as always.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I note a distinct quality difference between Eisenhower and George Bush SR.
And even scarier: I note a distinct quality difference between George Bush SR and George Bush JR.
But it gets worse: have you noticed the horrifying quality difference between George Bush JR and Sarah Palin?

If I proposed SP as vice president of the company I work for (120 employees), My employee file would read remarks like: "Not of sound judgement", "has no idea of running an organisation", "lacks firm grip on reality".

 

[Darth Rotor]

I note a distinct quality difference between Eisenhower and George Bush SR.
And even scarier: I note a distinct quality difference between George Bush SR and George Bush JR.
But it gets worse: have you noticed the horrifying quality difference between George Bush JR and Sarah Palin?

If I proposed SP as vice president of the company I work for (120 employees), My employee file would read remarks like: "Not of sound judgement", "has no idea of running an organisation", "lacks firm grip on reality".

Whle the GOP have successfully allowed the party of Lincoln to transform into something rather different, I ask you to consider the following:

GW Bush was offered up as a Pres with an older and experienced (Dick Cheney) mentor as an anchor to getting things done in Washington. Obama has no resume, or a short one, and is being offered up with an older and experienced mentor (Joe Biden) as an anchor to getting things done in Washington.

Neither W nor Obama had the kind of resume and job experience needed for the job, though W as governor had some executive experience.

One of the few US Presidents who had a well rounded resume, GHW Bush, was about average as a president.

So, long story short, your resume ploy is dead in the water.

This is politics. Different rules, different means, different aims. It isn't a business, though I suppose if you want government to be run like a business I can write you off as yet another neo fascist. Should I, or do you have something for me to digest that isn't rubbish?

The GOP have successfully pulled defeat from the jaws of victory. This self inflicted wound is decades old, and is rooted in the courting of the "silent majority" of previously disillusioned religious voters. The GOP time and again, since I began voting, has amazed me by giving the abortion issue a place as a single issue to both attract, and repel, voters of certain positions. (I have never considered that to be very smart, but so it goes.) The GOP will keep the losing streak they began in 2006 alive and well, until such time as they can reinvent their platform, and until such time as Americans once again get sick of the Democratic party. (The parallels between the GOP and the Detroit Lions football team can work on a lot of levels, as can the irony involved in using that city's team for comparison.)

The Democrats have done similar things, blowing a strong hand, to include blowing the Gore run in 2000.

It's a curious game, politics. Play never ends.

I don't see that the pubs have changed at all, seem like they are as always.

An important element of critical thinking is that thinking has to be involved.

Your post had zero evidence of any being put into it. Have you actually paid attention to what's been going on for the last eight years? The last fifteen? The last twenty?

DR

 

[gentlehorse]

Please tell I'm wrong. Please tell me that there is a rational wing to this party that has been sidetracked the last eight years.

I wish I could...

 

[Tricky]

In my opinion, the change came with Reagan. For all of his wrongs, Nixon was a competent president with a good grasp of foreign and domestic policy who was pretty much a fiscal conservative. Ford was a smart president too, who had to make a lot of tough decisions.

But when Reagan came to the White House, it was the dawn of the age of "Me First". His shameless cronyism, his inviting the foxes into the henhouse (There were more scandals in the Reagan years than any president before or since... and they were more important), his pandering to the religious right, and worst of all, his blithe cheerfulness about his lack of conscience, gave rise to the current generation of neocons that have turned so much of the Grand Old Party into a Bacchanalian orgy of greed and hatred.

While it is true that every Republican since Eisenhower has been anti-intellectual, Reagan was the first to bring stunning ignorance directly into the executive branch. Dubya is his political offspring.

With McCain, I think they're starting to recover, though his nomination of Palin is a bone tossed to those neocons. But while the process is slow, still, I'm hopeful that some day we will once again have Republicans that I can happily vote for.

 

[IchabodPlain]

I don't see that the pubs have changed at all, seem like they are as always.

No. The Republican Party, like the Democratic Party, has evolved and changed over time. Consider Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Barry Goldwater, and Reagan. Each is rather distinct (well the first two are closer) in their platform yet all have run for President as a Republican.

To answer the OP; Yes, there are rational Republicans (gee, imagine that, a generalization not holding up). I am pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-legalization of prostitution and decriminalization of all drugs, and support legalization of marijuana - and a Republican. There are the Log Cabin Republicans, there are Republicans like McCain who are much more moderate than most in their party.

Like Tailgater, I tend to vote on economic and foreign policy issues on the national level. I do, however, vote on social issues locally.

 

[Magyar]

The way I see it is that the Republican party has been a single issue party for at least 40-50 years - and that issue has been, money. In the 50's the strength of the unions balanced the strength of the large corp/affluent.

The 60's shot this to hell. Far more people became more liberal/left and the balance tipped. The money republicans had to find a group to bolster their party numbers or they knew they were going down. Really the only people available to them was the right wing social conservatives. I think that the money reps always believed that they could control the masses, but they were wrong.

Not to godwin this thread or anything, 'cause I don't mean anything else by this then the similarities in how Hitler got into office in the 30's but the republicans lost control and became this mishmash of all issues be damned at the cost of social conservatism -ala abortion, gay rights and free market at all cost. Neither side is winning or in power of the party so you get this ugly hybrid of McCain/Palin.


I think that after this fiscal disaster coupled with the drunken sailor spending of the last 15-20 years the imaginary fiscal conservative is once and for all confirmed as extinct.

The economic disaster that we are facing will take away any time/power from the right wing social agenda crowd. Hopefully this will allow the cohesion of a more centrist left or right that will be more social than most reps will be happy with but far more right than
the "socialist" nightmare the likes of the rep demagogues are trying to scare us with.

 

[fuelair]

I don't see that the pubs have changed at all, seem like they are as always.

Interesting, you are ca. 6 years younger than me, but grew up during the same basic period I did - and the Republicans were different then - especially in the type of religion they dealt in/with. Current republickers are way right wing there.....

 

[fuelair]

I note a distinct quality difference between Eisenhower and George Bush SR.
And even scarier: I note a distinct quality difference between George Bush SR and George Bush JR.
But it gets worse: have you noticed the horrifying quality difference between George Bush JR and Sarah Palin?

If I proposed SP as vice president of the company I work for (120 employees), My employee file would read remarks like: "Not of sound judgement", "has no idea of running an organisation", "lacks firm grip on reality".

Well said and observed!! Both historical and intellectual references spot on!!

 

[Eddie Dane]

Darth Rotor,

I don't know how to quote you, so that I can respond point-by-point. So bear with me:

I didn't mention her resume. I mean she would be destroyed in first job interview on her personal qualities. I'm sorry if my business/politics analogy was so vague that you felt compelled to resort to that strawman.

How transparent. You might as well have accused me of being a neo fascist. Oh wait....

 

[kurious_kathy]

I'm a republican and hope McCain gets elected!

If you really listen to Mc Cain he has a clear explanation to how he wants to go about turning things around. My insticts and discernment tell me that Obama does not mean one word of what he promises US citizens. In fact after seeing some of these reports coming out on Obama's political involvement with extreem activist groups I wonder how the heck did he even get to this place where he could possibly win this election? God help us this is a crucial time in history.

Have you seen who Obama's cousin in Kenya is yet? Here's a clip... http://www.foxnews.com/hannitysamerica/ Also think about how Obama wants our military to pull out so badly? I think there is every indication of this man being a undercover Muslim and I'm sorry but that's not right for the US to put a Mulim into the presidents office. Wouldn't that just destroy us in ways we can't even fathom! I am a American girl and want this nation to turn back to the one true God that is not Allah.

And also I would like to add there is nothing wrong with McCain's choice of running mate. I have always known more women should get invoved politically to help this country and it's leaders have more of a contience. After all don't women seem to be more tuned in sometimes to the heart of the matter? And I am not saying all women belong in politics, Hillary scares the heck out of me with her fatal liberal beliefs. And I'm sorry if I am offending other liberals out there but I would hope we all step back and check ourselves and our beliefs from time to time. I once was pro-choice but have changed sides after becoming a born again Christian just 4 years ago. I am post abortive too and have had the Lord forgive me for it. All life matters to God and this country is in big trouble for making abortion legal. I have seen the error of my old ways and repented, I pray Hillary and all others that side with her views do to.

All I can truly add to this thread is that this world truly must repent and seek the Lord while he may be found. After all if God is for us who can be against us. And especially the US who was founded on Godly principles. What the HECK happened?? It's not so much what happened to the Republicans that's the question here, it's what happened to the human race?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Darth Rotor,

I don't know how to quote you, so that I can respond point-by-point. So bear with me:

No, I'll educate you.

1. Copy the text I wrote.

2. Paste it into your reply space.

3. Type into the space, before the words you wish to quote, "quote=Darth Rotor" with a bracket ( [ ) at each end, used as parens are.
{quote=Darth Rotor} is how it will look. (If you substitute the [ class of char for the { class of char)

4. At the end of the desired text, put in {/quote} (again, with [ class replacing { class of character, and you will get a lovely quote box.

I didn't mention her resume. I mean she would be destroyed in first job interview on her personal qualities.

Irrelevant speculation, as useful as comparing apricots to passenger jets.

I'm sorry if my business/politics analogy was so vague that you felt compelled to resort to that strawman.

You don't seem to understand my response very well, nor do you seem to grasp how job interviews and resumes are linked, nor how useless comparing an election process to a hiring-and-firing process is. (Or you do, and you are just being sloppy. It happens.)

Tell ya what, I'll restate "resume ploy" as "fantasy hiring scenario" to be more in line with your original words.

Or do you hire people without reading their resumes?

How transparent. You might as well have accused me of being a neo fascist. Oh wait....

Actually, I was trying to get you to clear up what you meant, and you ducked into "you're picking on me" mode.

No problems. More fun in the future.

Oh, and since I have not yet so offered, welcome!

 

[Darth Rotor]

All I can truly add to this thread is that this world truly must repent and seek the Lord while he may be found. After all if God is for us who can be against us. And especially the US who was founded on Godly principles. What the HECK happened?? It's not so much what happened to the Republicans that's the question here, it's what happened to the human race?

Jesus wept.

Kathy, do you know why?

He knew that you would be around trying to speak in His name.

To answer your question, it's in your own handbook, aka the Bible: the human race had happen to it the propensity to sin and to err, from the get go. Why are you surprised that this continues? Or maybe you aren't, and I am not understanding what you wrote there.

DR

 

[kallsop]

There is a clear cycle. The democrats held Congressional power for a long time and gradually wore out their welcome. The republicans needed some big help from Bill Clinton to gain power, then they started to become the corruptocrats they replaced. President Bush and his asinine "compassionate conservatism" didn't fool anyone, it is warmed over socialism.

The media gave Obama and McCain priceless positive coverage in the early stages of the primaries. Even then, Obama barely won. I really do think McCain was expecting continued soft coverage throughout the election. How stupid is that. The media turned on him as soon as Romney and Huckabee fell aside and Obama was coronated.

I, for sure, boo the NYT. They are at the forefront of hopelessly in the tank for Obama "journalism".

Here's the deal. Both parties enjoy the perks of power and you are a nameless piece of the whole. They have the power to "spread the your wealth" and the only way out of this mess is to reduce their power. A good first step would be a flat tax so they can't buy votes. Next, lower taxes so there is less incentive for lobbyists because the pie is smaller. Dramatically cut corporate taxes so we can compete with just about every other nation that all have lower taxes.

Of the two, McCain is the one who will increase government power the least. Note - I don't think either will reduce the size of government. They coerced the banking industry into the toilet and now play the role of saviors. Nobody held accountable. Sickening.

Obama has already told you he will transfer wealth from producers to leeches. I wonder how that will work out?

"We're screwed '08"

 

[Oliver]

I don't know how to quote you

1. Copy the text I wrote.

2. Paste it into your reply space.

3. Type into the space, before the words you wish to quote, "quote=Darth Rotor" with a bracket ( [ ) at each end, used as parens are.
{quote=Darth Rotor} is how it will look. (If you substitute the [ class of char for the { class of char)

4. At the end of the desired text, put in {/quote} (again, with [ class replacing { class of character, and you will get a lovely quote box.

In other words:

 

[Tricky]

No, I'll educate you.

1. Copy the text I wrote.

2. Paste it into your reply space.

3. Type into the space, before the words you wish to quote, "quote=Darth Rotor" with a bracket ( [ ) at each end, used as parens are.
{quote=Darth Rotor} is how it will look. (If you substitute the [ class of char for the { class of char)

4. At the end of the desired text, put in {/quote} (again, with [ class replacing { class of character, and you will get a lovely quote box.

And here's a lesson for you, Darth.

Use the "noparse" brackets if you're trying to explain something. What they do is turn off the html code For example you can type [noparse][quote=Darth Rotor]Darth is a weiner[/quote][/noparse] and it shows up just the way you would type it in the entry box. It prevents you having to explain about swapping the brackets.