LuxFerum said:To scare the mosquitoes?
LOL. Maggie will stay in history. I admire her, she has character, she wasn't afraid to express her opinion, she didn't care about her popularity, she was tough,she wears a skirt!
edited to add :
Chaos, the party that won resembles a lot to the German Christian Democrats in the period of Kohl.
El Greco
Summer worshipper
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The conservatives won rather easily, which was a surprise. Here are the results (following the above order):
1. 40,6 %
2. 45,4 %
3. 5,9 %
4. 3,2 %
5. 1,8 %
6. 2,2 %
Is the conservatives' win Cleopatra's first step towards the parliament ? Perhaps, there's always a place for one more lawyer in the Greek parliament.
The truth is that it was about time for a turnover and in this respect I'm glad for the result. But I don't have illusions, not many things are going to change. I know every bit of the road that a young, politicized idealist has to follow in order to climb the political ladder, and there is almost no chance for honest people to make it to the top. Besides, politicians can only do so much, our real tragedy is the idiocy of people. I was watching last night the celebrations of the winners' followers; you could find no difference betwen them and a mafficking mob after the win of their favourite football team. For these poor idiots it's just another football match; us vs them. And no matter who governs, it's exactly these idiots that I will continue having to face in my everyday life. It's those idiots who staff the public sector and drive like drunkards all the time. And it is them who are unable to think critically and get rid of the glue that has stuck all around their brain.
And indeed, there is nothing more disappointing than realizing that only a 7-10% of the voters is actually possible to change their vote from one election to the next. All the rest are going to vote the same, no matter what. I used to joke with some socialist friends of mine by telling them that even if all the conservative politicians would join the socialist party, they would still vote for them just because they call themselves "socialists". Guess what, this is exactly what happened during these elections; two of the most conservative politicians joined the socialists and sure enough, my friends voted "socialists" again. Exactly the same with conservatives, communists and everyone else. It never ceases to amaze me when people actually take pride in that they always vote for the same party no matter what. They choose their party exactly like they choose their football team or their religion, without any rational thinking that is, and they wear it like a second skin for the rest of their lives. For me, it is the equivalent of saying "oh yes, I am an idiot unable to think critically, and I am proud of it". I know that they are just people and I somehow have to live and be happy with them, but it is the thought of their massive numbers that actually saddens me.
1. 40,6 %
2. 45,4 %
3. 5,9 %
4. 3,2 %
5. 1,8 %
6. 2,2 %
Is the conservatives' win Cleopatra's first step towards the parliament ? Perhaps, there's always a place for one more lawyer in the Greek parliament.
The truth is that it was about time for a turnover and in this respect I'm glad for the result. But I don't have illusions, not many things are going to change. I know every bit of the road that a young, politicized idealist has to follow in order to climb the political ladder, and there is almost no chance for honest people to make it to the top. Besides, politicians can only do so much, our real tragedy is the idiocy of people. I was watching last night the celebrations of the winners' followers; you could find no difference betwen them and a mafficking mob after the win of their favourite football team. For these poor idiots it's just another football match; us vs them. And no matter who governs, it's exactly these idiots that I will continue having to face in my everyday life. It's those idiots who staff the public sector and drive like drunkards all the time. And it is them who are unable to think critically and get rid of the glue that has stuck all around their brain.
And indeed, there is nothing more disappointing than realizing that only a 7-10% of the voters is actually possible to change their vote from one election to the next. All the rest are going to vote the same, no matter what. I used to joke with some socialist friends of mine by telling them that even if all the conservative politicians would join the socialist party, they would still vote for them just because they call themselves "socialists". Guess what, this is exactly what happened during these elections; two of the most conservative politicians joined the socialists and sure enough, my friends voted "socialists" again. Exactly the same with conservatives, communists and everyone else. It never ceases to amaze me when people actually take pride in that they always vote for the same party no matter what. They choose their party exactly like they choose their football team or their religion, without any rational thinking that is, and they wear it like a second skin for the rest of their lives. For me, it is the equivalent of saying "oh yes, I am an idiot unable to think critically, and I am proud of it". I know that they are just people and I somehow have to live and be happy with them, but it is the thought of their massive numbers that actually saddens me.
peptoabysmal
Illuminator
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rdaneel said:
My impression is that in Europe you have your choice of "left" and "lefter". Amazing that they can dance so well with two left feet
El Greco said:
I don't hold parliamentary democracy on a high esteem. I believe that votes should be scaled and not counted. Also, being of Jewish origin I don't intend to put into a nasty position my family and the jewish community of Athens. Many people would start calling me "The Jew" to describe me also they are parts of my CV that don't qualify me for a good candidate for the Greek Parliament.
Greece is a member of EU ( thanks to the founder of the conservative party) and its legislation and presence has to follow a certain path.
During the late years the socialist party was transformed to a bad copy of the conservative party but it couldn't forget its socialist background, meaning its fatal connection with the syndicats that don't permit anything of essence to happen in this country. The conservative party has no obligation to the powerful, mafia style and socialist oriented syndicats. They will be spanked.
I prefer the original conservatives to apply our policies and not the bad replicas.
Also, the socialists after so many years and lacking any serious political tradition they had formed a regime.
So, yes some things will change, we have to see if they will change for the better.
Don't forget that Greece suffered a civil war and a Junda very recently. Those events have caused social wounds that they arer very difficult to heal. I cannot forget what the communists did to my family there is no way for me to vote for a leftist party, ever. Until some years ago, people that have been torturing civilians on the mountains during the civil war they were MPs of the Communist Party. There are people who have suffered by the conservatives too and they can't get over the feeling of despise they feel about them.
Of course if I ever get disappointed by the conservatives I will give a white ballot, I cannot ever vote for a left party because my ideology is far from left and I cannot forget what those people did to Greece.
I take pride in the fact that my principles do not change. It's good to have principles and it's good for a country to have parties that respect their political past and tradition. Different layers of society don't have the same needs. I would be an hypocrite if I claimed that I have the same interests and needs with a industrial worker or with an immigrant.
It is kind of boring to keep describing the obvious.
And?
El Greco
Summer worshipper
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Cleopatra said:
That's too bad. I'd vote for you
Greece would be a member of the EU either way. If the conservatives were anti-EU back then, the socialists would be pro-EU.
What socialists and conservatives... I know from my university years some socialists and conservatives who now hold high positions in their parties and will soon be governing us. Do you want to know how they chose their party back when we were freshmen ? By watching carefully in which party the best chicks were. Those few that really had visions and ideas got sick of it and retired pretty soon from politics.
The better for whom ? For you ? For Greece ? For the upper class ? The middle class ? The lower class ? If we are talking about "Greece" and "the majority", the things will just flow along, as they have always been.
Only that this "recently" is already 30 years ago. People in their 40s don't even remember it. And some of the most prominent opposers of the junta have immersed themselves deeply into corruption. Like the leaders of May 68 in France. Power changes people. People will not stay honest all of their lives. People change, for the better or for the worse.
There is no ideology nowadays. Ideology is a bad joke. We have data now, we can deal with a problem and look at the best and more viable solutions. And then decide based on the damn facts, not some cloudy ideology. All we need is smart and honest people. Preferably with no "ideology" at all. I've seen the "ideologists" and what they can do pretty well.
Please don't say this. "Principle" is the name people give to their unwillingness or inability to think. It is the name they give to thoughts they have inherited instead of formed. If you go and live in a totally unknown society most of your principles will be useless and you will be forced to think for yourself. Why not here, why not now ? If I see someone who I think is smart, keen and honest, why shouldn't I vote for him, no matter where he belongs ? Why should anyone judge you from the fact that you are a conservative Jew, based on his ill-formed principles ? Isn't this what you despise the most ?
And ? And people don't change ? And there is no hope ? And the "obvious" is overwhelming ? Perhaps. But my version is "And I will not compromise with all these".
Abdul Alhazred
Philosopher
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Poll scrambles.
Marquis de Carabas
Penultimate Amazing
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I voted for everyone except clarsct--couldn't let him keep the tie.
Is it so hard not to show? Sheesh. Shoulda called yourself el Pecs.
Dream on, Romeo. I just can't understand why you're giving it away for free here, when all number of gay publications would gladly pony up, if you'll pardon the term.
Poor? Hey, at least I can afford a shirt.
El Greco
Summer worshipper
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Well if you can afford a shirt, then you can afford gay magazines as well. So please stop looking at my previous avatar (*). I'm not gay, but even if I were you wouldn't be my type. Sorry.
(*)An effective way to stop looking at my avatar is to avoid clicking on threads I've started. It works wonders.
(*)An effective way to stop looking at my avatar is to avoid clicking on threads I've started. It works wonders.
Vanity runs amok in your world, doesn't it? Okay, gay for pay, then, if you prefer. Whatever. All I'm saying is that a shirt would help you reduce those staggering back-waxing bills.