What Makes a Man A Scotsman?

[theprestige]

With the meaning of words like "democracy", "liberal", "fascist", and "news organization" being hotly debated at every turn, I figured we should cut right to the chase, and address the real problem inherent in all of these debates:

What is a true Scotsman?

Obviously citizenship alone isn't enough, since it's possible to obtain citizenship without ever bothering to assimilate true Scottish values and conventions. Indeed, it might be possible that citizenship-or manliness, for that matter--isn't even a necessary prerequisite.

Some may say that this is a parody thread, but I disagree: At the very least, I would argue that it isn't a true parody thread.

 

[uk_dave]

A true scotsman would want to be able to vote for the person best able to lead a country, regardless of term limits and place of birth.

 

[Lothian]

What is a true Scotsman?

Buy me a drink and I will tell you.

 

[Bikewer]

Let's see... Red hair, full beard, kilts, marching around the fens with one fist outstretched...
Oh wait, that was the Monty Python version. Still, they should know....

 

[Mojo]

Square sausage.

 

[Dave Rogers]

And can't play tennis. That's why we think of Andy Murray as a great English sportsman.

Dave

 

[Wudang]

It's a question of attitude

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Buy me a drink and I will tell you.

This.

 

[funk de fino]

A Scot who has stopped beating is wife?

 

[funk de fino]

There is definitely a distinction between being a scottish citizen and being a scot. The whole british thing comes into it as well.

In sport, it is a real mess, as far as representing Scotland in various different sports is concerned.

 

[Darth Rotor]

One who puts raisins in his porridge.

 

[Eyeron]

Must be Korean.

 

[Jontg]

Somebody who both self-identifies as a Scotsman and lacks any traits that diametrically oppose Scottishness is a True Scotsman. For example, Jean-Pierre MacDonagh claims to be a Scotsman, but speaks with a French accent and has never worn a kilt in his life, and thus is not a True Scotsman--and neither is Angus al'Kabhir ibn Ali, because despite his authentic brogue and prodigious appetite for alcohol, he considers himself to be from Turkmenistan.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Somebody who both self-identifies as a Scotsman and lacks any traits that diametrically oppose Scottishness is a True Scotsman. For example, Jean-Pierre MacDonagh claims to be a Scotsman, but speaks with a French accent and has never worn a kilt in his life, and thus is not a True Scotsman--and neither is Angus al'Kabhir ibn Ali, because despite his authentic brogue and prodigious appetite for alcohol, he considers himself to be from Turkmenistan.

Angus al'Kabhir ibn Ali is thus a True Scrutsman.

Or something like that.

DR

 

[Lothian]

Somebody who both self-identifies as a Scotsman and lacks any traits that diametrically oppose Scottishness is a True Scotsman. For example, Jean-Pierre MacDonagh claims to be a Scotsman, but speaks with a French accent and has never worn a kilt in his life, and thus is not a True Scotsman--and neither is Angus al'Kabhir ibn Ali, because despite his authentic brogue and prodigious appetite for alcohol, he considers himself to be from Turkmenistan.

Turkmenistan in Argyle & Bute?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I find something slightly out of kilter about this thread.

With the meaning of words like "democracy", "liberal", "fascist", and "news organization" being hotly debated at every turn, I figured we should cut right to the chase, and address the real problem inherent in all of these debates:

What is a true Scotsman?

I like to quote Orwell from "Politics and the English Language" (from the section on "Meaningless Words"):

Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable." The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another. In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using that word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different. Statements like Marshal Pétain was a true [Scotsman?] patriot, The Soviet press is the freest in the world, The Catholic Church is opposed to persecution, are almost always made with intent to deceive. Other words used in variable meanings, in most cases more or less dishonestly, are: class, totalitarian, science, progressive, reactionary, bourgeois, equality.

I suspect the list today of words often abused in this way would be slightly different (but surprisingly not very much given that this essay was published more than 60 years ago!)

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The real test of a Scotsman:

 

[dudalb]

A Scotsman is somebody who can eat Haggis and not throw up immediately afterwards.

 

[plumjam]

Necessary but not sufficient ingredients:

Negative predisposition to joviality
Largely incomprehensible
Trousers smell of whiskey
Poor diet
Propensity for standing on street corners to pick fights with passers by
Immediate family contains at least one seriously ginger member
Utilises facial muscles less than members of any other western culture, except when spitting
Has artistic representation of grouse hen somewhere in home

 

[Rolfe]

That's actionable, you know.

Someone who self-identifies as a Scot and sees their future in terms of that identity.

Rolfe.