What Is The Soul?

[Brian-M]

The Bible is the evidence for God, but atheists really don't want evidence, they just think that you don't have any so they can dismiss everything you say with that lame defense. If you give atheists evidence for something they don't want to believe they won't accept or even consider it.

Actually, we do want evidence. We keep asking for evidence, but nobody ever provides evidence that stands up to scrutiny. People often claim to have evidence, but either they fail to deliver, or the "evidence" is nonsense, so we tend to be a little jaded about it.

We do have evidence that people make up myths and "Holy" texts, and that many other people believe these myths and texts to be true. (Eg, Book of Mormon, Scientology, Cargo Cults, etc.) If you want us to accept the Bible as evidence, you could begin by showing us why we should regard it as something more than just another collection of myths and fables.

Do you think that if you find truth that you have to measure it by contemplation of every other possibility in existence from the history of mankind?

Not at all. To confirm you have the truth, all you have to do is test it against reality. Have you done this with the "truth" of the Bible? If so, how? And what were the results.

The Bible isn't a philosophy, though. And it doesn't have it all right in that it has everything. It isn't a science book but it is accurate and in line with proved science. It isn't an instruction manual on mechanics or computer technology. It is the word of Jehovah God which proves itself to anyone who is really interested in the truth it does offer.

Good, that's a great start. It's accurate and in line with proved science. Um, exactly what proved science would that be?

The Tower of Babel story that claims all the different languages came into existence in a single day is in line with the science of linguistics?

Or that Jacob breeding striped goats by having the (non-striped) parents look at striped reeds while copulating is in line with the science of genetics?

The figures in both Exodus and Numbers that show the population of Hebrews beginning with less than a hundred rapidly growing to millions in less than a century is in line with the science of demography?

The claim in Leviticus that hares chew the cud is in line with the science of zoology?

The claim in Joshua that God made the sun stand still, and in Isaiah that he made it move backwards by 10 degrees is in line with the science of astronomy?

The claim Job 38:22-23 that God keeps a store of snow and hail set aside for emergencies is in line with the science of meteorology?

All those many references to the earth resting on pillars is in line with the science of geology?

The claim that Jonah survived in the belly of a "great fish" for three days is in line with the science of biology?

The claim that prayer can reliably cure all disease is in line with the science of medicine? (If so, that would easily win Randi's Million Dollar Challenge!)

The claim that a dragon will knock the stars from the sky with its tail is in line with the science of cosmology?

In what conceivable way is the bible "accurate and in line with proved science"?

ETA:

There certainly isn't anything wrong with that. You don't need a reason to believe whatever you choose to believe, but don't tell me there is no evidence when I could pile evidence over your head standing up.

Then start shoveling. I've yet to see any hint of this alleged evidence.

If you knew anything about science you would know that every new bit of science that replaces an old one has replaced and will likely be replaced by what is, in hindsight, science fiction.

Not true. Newton's laws of physics, for example, are over 400 years old, and have been superseded by relativity. But they're still in use today, because they're describe reality to a high degree of accuracy.

Darwin didn't know anything about genetics (DNA hadn't been discovered), and he was wrong about many details, but evolution is stronger than ever, because it describes reality to a high degree of accuracy.

Copernicus didn't know a millionth about astronomy about what we know today, but his idea that the earth revolves around the sun instead of the other way around still holds true after more than 450 years, because it describes the solar system with a high degree of accuracy.

Can you honestly tell us that The Bible describes reality with any kind of demonstrable accuracy?

 

[Trent Wray]

Is this the kind of "evidence" where we'll have to suspend our intellects and *just believe*?

It's a way to "announce his presence and bless us," by building up our anticipation like a movie trailer.

 

[David Henson]

so, we throw away the supernatural, and all the bits proven incorrect by science (global flood, exodus, genesis etc) and the crappy allegory bits (Jonah etc)..... what are we left with?

In this thread we are talking about the soul. Aside from one post which I will address shortly there has been absolutely nothing said about the soul which would indicate to me that you disagree with me regarding the soul. Only that you have to harass anyone who disagrees with your disbelief. Nothing remotely resembling evidence for what you believe or are even paying attention.

Women are crap, slavery is fine, then god loses his rag and kills a bunch of people......

My next thread will be about women since the subject has come up a couple times. Here is What The Bible Says About Slavery Which I wrote.

 

[David Henson]

It's a way to "announce his presence and bless us," by building up our anticipation like a movie trailer.

Its a cat and mouse game and I'm the cat.

 

[dafydd]

In this thread we are talking about the soul. Aside from one post which I will address shortly there has been absolutely nothing said about the soul which would indicate to me that you disagree with me regarding the soul. Only that you have to harass anyone who disagrees with your disbelief. Nothing remotely resembling evidence for what you believe or are even paying attention.



My next thread will be about women since the subject has come up a couple times. Here is What The Bible Says About Slavery Which I wrote.

Please don't,we've already been through all that with Doc and his arguements were demolished,Deja Vu.Do you think that you are the first person here who has ever raised these subjects? We've been through it all ad nauseum.

 

[Trent Wray]

Its a cat and mouse game and I'm the cat.

Yes I could see that when you initially didn't want to cut to the chase and get to the true heart of the matter of why you're here. You should be treated as entertainment for this forum and not taken seriously. Go ahead and think you're in control if that is what you need. What a great representative of "god".

 

[dafydd]

Its a cat and mouse game and I'm the cat.

In your dreams.You are just another deluded god botherer,the latest in a long line here.You are nothing special.You provide some light relief though.I've been directing some of my fbook friends to this and they find it very entertaining.

 

[Trent Wray]

Its a cat and mouse game and I'm the cat.

And by the way, this should be at the top of every one of the threads you start, just so people know you're agenda in attempting to feed your ego.

 

[Nonpareil]

Spirit is a being created by The Most High from the flame of scorching fire (perhaps from 'plasma' in modern sense) which could be embodied or could also exist outside body.

So plasma is a soul?

Riiight.

It is believed that all hot-blooded animals (birds and mammals, bipeds inclusive) possess spirit which during their live sustains otherwise unexplainable permanent temperature of their physical bodies

It's explained.

and which departs with their death (making their physical body cold at once)

It doesn't turn cold immediately.

and may for some time live independently, communicate with other spirits, or it may be re-embodied by entering some newly born creature of the same kind. This is also the very thing which is called "aura" in some cultures.

And it shares another thing with "auras". It has absolutely no supporting evidence.

That's about all of this crap that I can stand replying to at a go, so I'll drop off there. The rest is every bit as nonsensical and unsubstantiated, so it's not like anything new is there to deal with anyway.

 

[Trent Wray]

In your dreams.You are just another deluded god botherer,the latest in a long line here.You are nothing special.You provide some light relief though.

I believe it's called "little man" syndrome

What's sad is that I diagnosed it within his first few posts, but he insisted on the game. It's not as much fun when a dog recognizes a cat immediately.

 

[Nonpareil]

In this thread we are talking about the soul.

I thought we threw that bit out. After all, the soul is generally agreed to be supernatural.

 

[dafydd]

I believe it's called "little man" syndrome

What's sad is that I diagnosed it with his first post, but he insisted on the game. He' so smooth and cat like.

He did not realise that there are some past masters at the game here,it's like walking into a blowtorch.

 

[Oystein]

Uhm I have only yet read the first page of this discussion an apologize if anybody the following point already, but...

...
I think that if by believer you mean a believer in the Bible it becomes pretty black and white. Ezekiel 18:4 says the soul dies, so can't be immortal. I don't see how, even with any religious traditional attempt to transmogrify that simple fact, how any believer in the Bible could reasonably justify the position that the soul is immortal...

... Ezekiel 18:4 qualifies this statement: "The soul who sins is the one who will die." (New International Version; other translations indeed use the word "person" instead of "soul").

So, according to Ezekiel, a soul/person may be immortal if the person does not sin. Enter Jesus / Paul, who claim that sinning can be undone, and more souls may be rendered immortal.

Just not all. But I don't think that it is the position of many or most Bible believers that all souls will have eternal life? Ok, some cults speculate about an alternative eternal life in hell...

 

[911thology]

... Ezekiel 18:4 qualifies this statement: "The soul who sins is the one who will die." (New International Version; other translations indeed use the word "person" instead of "soul").

So, according to Ezekiel, a soul/person may be immortal if the person does not sin. Enter Jesus / Paul, who claim that sinning can be undone, and more souls may be rendered immortal.

Just not all. But I don't think that it is the position of many or most Bible believers that all souls will have eternal life? Ok, some cults speculate about an alternative eternal life in hell...

Here the Bible does not mean "die physically", but "eternally live in Hell", instead.

 

[paximperium]

In this thread we are talking about the soul. Aside from one post which I will address shortly there has been absolutely nothing said about the soul which would indicate to me that you disagree with me regarding the soul. Only that you have to harass anyone who disagrees with your disbelief. Nothing remotely resembling evidence for what you believe or are even paying attention.

So the soul is blood. Bravo.
So?

 

[Trent Wray]

So the soul is blood. Bravo.
So?

The soul is blood. And David is the cat. And we are the dog ... I mean mouse.

 

[David Henson]

Furthermore, if you're really being intellectually honest with yourself .... it seems to me that you are essentially judging skeptics for their "unbelief" because you claim that you were skeptic yourself before you believed.

This is the evaluation of a skeptical mind? You realize that being skeptical doesn't actually and simply mean that you deny anything contrary to your beliefs? Xenophobia?

I'm not judging anyone except for to say you are the same as me. Only less informed.

If I told you that I don't believe in evolution would you not judge me likewise? You would make the assumption that I simply don't know evolution or I would believe in it.

I would assume you are really judging yourself prior to your current status with "god", and you've missed several key ingredients to "the gospel" that your own bible delivers. Thus ... why you continue to judge, essentially, yourself. It's as though you want to see a skeptic evangelized to be inline with yourself, to legitimize and give validity to your own faith. You are wanting to take the faith out of faith. It's not possible to make faith fact ... it would cease to be faith!

Faith doesn't exclude knowledge or facts. If I have faith that the Bible says that Pontius Pilate existed in spite of no evidence that is faith, but the fact that there is secular evidence that Publius Sulpicius Quirinius isn't hindered by the lack of evidence of the former. So - before 1961 the skeptic would scoff at a believer for having faith that Pontius Pilate until at that time a discovery was made which confirmed his existence.

We have faith in money, its value, but that doesn't negate the facts we can gather regarding money and the financial.

Seriously ... stop confusing faith with fact. If someone is unwilling to acknowledge fact, it shows ignorance, lack of education, lack of intellectual ability perhaps, etc.

You mean like having any real facts on what the Bible says the soul is as opposed to avoiding the discussion or spouting baseless opinion?

 

[paximperium]

This is the evaluation of a skeptical mind? You realize that being skeptical doesn't actually and simply mean that you deny anything contrary to your beliefs? Xenophobia?

No. Skepticism denies unfalsifiable claims and claims that has no evidence to support it. Basically delusions and fantasy.

I'm not judging anyone except for to say you are the same as me. Only less informed.

You have yet to provide any evidence of this claim.

If I told you that I don't believe in evolution would you not judge me likewise? You would make the assumption that I simply don't know evolution or I would believe in it.

Yes. Pretty much. I have little doubt you understand evolution at all.

You see. I consider your Creationism nonsense at the same seriousness as Urine Drinkers or Flat Earthers. Basically useless and exceedingly funny.

Faith doesn't exclude knowledge or facts. If I have faith that the Bible says that Pontius Pilate existed in spite of no evidence that is faith, but the fact that there is secular evidence that Publius Sulpicius Quirinius isn't hindered by the lack of evidence of the former.

So faith is belief in whatever is claimed even if evidence supported or does not support it. Bravo. How useless.

So - before 1961 the skeptic would scoff at a believer for having faith that Pontius Pilate until at that time a discovery was made which confirmed his existence.

Yes. Why? Was that suppose to sound intelligent?

We have faith in money, its value, but that doesn't negate the facts we can gather regarding money and the financial.

So you have no idea how money works either.

You mean like having any real facts on what the Bible says the soul is as opposed to avoiding the discussion or spouting baseless opinion?

You mean how you've defined the soul as something called blood? Bravo. So?

 

[David Henson]

Here the Bible does not mean "die physically", but "eternally live in Hell", instead.

Does Hell Exist?

Hell isn't a Bible teaching.

 

[PixyMisa]

Its a cat and mouse game and I'm the cat.

And, sadly for you, this is a Tom and Jerry cartoon.