What is the difference between art and advertising?

Tricky said:
But some art is neither for monetary exchange, or propaganda. So thats why I'm asking (again) how you are defining the word "sell" in this context (that all art is "selling" something), because for the life of me I can't match it to any standard definition.
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Show me an example.

martu said:
That isn't what I said so no.
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What did you say, then?

martu said:
How do you know they are selling something then?
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It's impossible to say: I haven't seen the work.

martu said:
Just that.
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Then, we agree.
 
CFLarsen said:
What did you say, then?
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I used an example of art where there is no selling, the random number picture. Which is my current Windows desktop, a use of art.

I think you're doing one of two things:

1) Define sell to mean what you want or
2) Define art to mean what you want.

I have no desire to carry on this discussion, I see no resolution I'm afraid. At least this time you didn't call me a troll, thank you.
 
CFLarsen said:
Show me an example.
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When I was in the 11th grade, I had a major crush on my English teacher, a just-out-of-college bouncy little blonde named Rita. Since I really didn't need much help learning English literature (I'd read the whole textbook in the first month) I spent the whole class for over a week making a picture of her. I'd study her intently and add a line or two, erase and do it again. I sat in the back of the class so nobody would see me. I never showed the picture to anybody. I have no idea what happened to it.

That was art. Maybe not good art, but it was art. It was not for selling. It was not for propaganda. It was not for any purpose but my own personal satisfaction.

Okay, I have done as you asked (without having to be asked twice) and given you an example.

Now, asking for the third time, will you give us the definition you use for "selling" when you say "all art is selling something"?
 
martu said:
I used an example of art where there is no selling, the random number picture. Which is my current Windows desktop, a use of art.

I think you're doing one of two things:

1) Define sell to mean what you want or
2) Define art to mean what you want.

I have no desire to carry on this discussion, I see no resolution I'm afraid. At least this time you didn't call me a troll, thank you.
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Just before you leave:

To you, what is not art?
 
Tricky said:
When I was in the 11th grade, I had a major crush on my English teacher, a just-out-of-college bouncy little blonde named Rita. Since I really didn't need much help learning English literature (I'd read the whole textbook in the first month) I spent the whole class for over a week making a picture of her. I'd study her intently and add a line or two, erase and do it again. I sat in the back of the class so nobody would see me. I never showed the picture to anybody. I have no idea what happened to it.

That was art.
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There you go.
 
Claus, if this is all simply a matter of pure opinion, why the discussion at all? You seem to feel that definitions for terms and their parameters are purely forms of opinion. You won't define terms such as 'advertise' with reference to something which shows it's not just your own invented version of the word, and resort to 'it's just my opinion', so why bother?

Athon
 
Loss Leader said:
Of course art has a purpose. The purpose of art is for the artist to convey the message, "this is how I see the world." Advertising has the same purpose, "This is how we at the Widget Corporation see the world."

Both attempt to open the viewer's mind to a new way of thinking about the universe. There is no difference between the two.
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Yes, there is. Widget Corporation wants to sell you their product via the ad. An artist's product IS the art, and s/he doesn't have to sell it, or even want to sell it, for it to be art. Advertising is purely a way to attract attention to a product. It might contain art, but as Tricky said, art doesn't require a purpose, while advertising does.
 
Tricky said:
When I was in the 11th grade, I had a major crush on my English teacher, a just-out-of-college bouncy little blonde named Rita. Since I really didn't need much help learning English literature (I'd read the whole textbook in the first month) I spent the whole class for over a week making a picture of her. I'd study her intently and add a line or two, erase and do it again. I sat in the back of the class so nobody would see me. I never showed the picture to anybody. I have no idea what happened to it.

That was art. Maybe not good art, but it was art. It was not for selling. It was not for propaganda. It was not for any purpose but my own personal satisfaction.
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Do you think this study of Gericault's The Raft is art?

If yes, then you have your answer.

athon said:
Claus, if this is all simply a matter of pure opinion, why the discussion at all? You seem to feel that definitions for terms and their parameters are purely forms of opinion. You won't define terms such as 'advertise' with reference to something which shows it's not just your own invented version of the word, and resort to 'it's just my opinion', so why bother?

Athon
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Don't you ever discuss something that is all simply a matter of pure opinion? Everything you discuss is solely about facts, figures, evidence? You must be a real catch as a dinner conversationalist.

What about this thread? Is your participation in this thread only meant to present pure facts about art?
 
Tricky said:
When I was in the 11th grade, I had a major crush on my English teacher, a just-out-of-college bouncy little blonde named Rita. Since I really didn't need much help learning English literature (I'd read the whole textbook in the first month) I spent the whole class for over a week making a picture of her. I'd study her intently and add a line or two, erase and do it again. I sat in the back of the class so nobody would see me. I never showed the picture to anybody. I have no idea what happened to it.
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I like this story very much. More Muse theory.
 
CFLarsen said:
Do you think this study of Gericault's The Raft is art?

If yes, then you have your answer.
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That is in no way an answer to the question "how are you defining 'sell' when you say 'all art sells something'?"

So I'll ask it politely for the fifth time.

ETA: Also, you asked for an example of art that wasn't selling anything. I provided it, but you made no comments. Do you agree that it is an example of art that is not selling anything?
 
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Tricky said:
That is in no way an answer to the question "how are you defining 'sell' when you say 'all art sells something'?"

So I'll ask it politely for the fifth time.
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See post #102. You know perfectly well that it was answered.

Do you think the study of Gericault's The Raft is art, yes or no?
 
CFLarsen said:
See post #102. You know perfectly well that it was answered.
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No, Claus, that is what is commonly called "a lie". This is your reply in post #102:
CFLarsen said:
It isn't a question of the meaning of "selling". It's a question of whether art sells or not. That is a matter of opinion.
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You see, what you said in post #102 is that you wouldn't answer the question because you didn't feel you needed to. And, of course, you didn't answer the question. Now, just above, you say you did answer. It is just this sort of dishonesty that makes you one of the least respected posters on this forum.
CFLarsen said:
Do you think the study of Gericault's The Raft is art, yes or no?
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I'll answer when you do. I already provided you the example you asked for and you ignored it completely. Give me a reason why I should continue to politely answer your questions when you ignore not only my questions but my answers.
 
Tricky said:
No, Claus, that is what is commonly called "a lie". This is your reply in post #102:

You see, what you said in post #102 is that you wouldn't answer the question because you didn't feel you needed to. And, of course, you didn't answer the question. Now, just above, you say you did answer. It is just this sort of dishonesty that makes you one of the least respected posters on this forum.

I'll answer when you do. I already provided you the example you asked for and you ignored it completely. Give me a reason why I should continue to politely answer your questions when you ignore not only my questions but my answers.
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No, it's not a lie, and here's why:

If you answer "yes", you will have to admit that even an exercise - such as your own - is selling: Not only did you leave a work behind, you also improved your skills. Just like Gericault.

If, on the other hand, you answer "no", then you will have to explain why Gericault's study is not art. And I don't think you want to go there.

But, rather than admit that I wasn't "wrong", you prefer to avoid my point and call me a liar instead. Why not simply admit that I wasn't "wrong"? You may disagree with the way I see art, but in your desire to see me "wrong", you certainly have placed yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Have a nice day. And learn that your perception of art is not the only one.
 
Tricky said:
In between politely entreating people for a response, why don't you reply to my politely entreated request, now politely entreated for the fourth time?
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Do you really expect an answer? :rolleyes:

If you do get a response, it will be to feign ignorance, or to point you to some post that has nothing to do with the question you asked.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Do you really expect an answer? :rolleyes:

If you do get a response, it will be to feign ignorance, or to point you to some post that has nothing to do with the question you asked.
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CFLarsen said:
See post #102. You know perfectly well that it was answered.

Do you think the study of Gericault's The Raft is art, yes or no?
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Where is my million?
 
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