What is good about religion?

Sounds pretty literal to me.


From

http://www.allaboutprayer.org/power-of-prayer.htm


Power Of Prayer - How powerful is it?
The power of prayer should not be underestimated. James 5:16-18 declares, "…The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops." God most definitely listens to prayers, answers prayers, and moves in response to prayers.

Jesus taught, "…I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you" (Matthew 17:20). 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 tells us, "The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." The Bible urges us, "And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints" (Ephesians 6:18).

Power Of Prayer - How do I tap into it?
The power of prayer is not the result of the person praying. Rather, the power resides in the God who is being prayed to. 1 John 5:14-15 tells us, "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us - whatever we ask - we know that we have what we asked of him." No matter the person praying, the passion behind the prayer, or the purpose of the prayer - God answers prayers that are in agreement with His will. His answers are not always yes, but are always in our best interest. When our desires line up with His will, we will come to understand that in time. When we pray passionately and purposefully, according to God's will, God responds powerfully!

We cannot access powerful prayer by using "magic formulas." Our prayers being answered is not based on the eloquence of our prayers. We don't have to use certain words or phrases to get God to answer our prayers. In fact, Jesus rebukes those who pray using repetitions, "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him" (Matthew 6:7-8). Prayer is communicating with God. All you have to do is ask God for His help. Psalm 107:28-30 reminds us, "Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble, and he brought them out of their distress. He stilled the storm to a whisper; the waves of the sea were hushed. They were glad when it grew calm, and he guided them to their desired haven." There is power in prayer!


And it sounds like scotth said, when prayers aren't answered literally, it isn't because prayers aren't supposed to be answered literally, it's because you prayed for something that was not God's will.
 
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FSM said:
And it sounds like scotth said, when prayers aren't answered literally, it isn't because prayers aren't supposed to be answered literally, it's because you prayed for something that was not God's will.
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O ye of little faith, knowest that the one true bob answers all prayers - with a yes, no or wait - delivered via the sacred chalice, aka the jug of milk

www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com
whydoesgodhateamputees said:
"Pray to the jug of milk." I tell you that if you pray to the jug of milk, it will answer all your prayers. You are skeptical, but you agree to try it. You pray to the jug of milk to give you 1,000.

Now I say to you, "The jug of milk answers prayers in the form of 'yes', 'no' and 'wait'. Let's see what happens."

What is going to happen? There are three scenarios:
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Thanks six7s! I can't believe that I haven't come across this site before!

In milk jug's name I pray, Amen.


(Also, FSM can kick Bob's wussy ass any day of the week. :))
 
FSM said:
(Also, FSM can kick Bob's wussy ass any day of the week. :))
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Instead of 'bob', I was going to type "O ye of little faith, knowest that the one true FSM answers all prayers"... but thought it might be a tad too ambiguous

PS I don't believe there really is a bob
 
P.S. I know you know there is no Bob. I'm still a member of the Church of Bob and I don't believe that there is a Bob either. And with all that said, FSM could still kick Bob's ass. :)



A little about the power of prayer in Texas:

My sister used to be very skeptical about religion and particularly Christianity. We both read the entire Old Testament together so we could see if maybe we were missing something. We decided that we were missing something, all right. We were missing how F-ed up it all truly was. It was nice to be able to talk to her, particularly because my mom (who was previously agnostic) was BORN AGAIN... blech. Mom turned back to religion when she and my dad were having rough times and she was very lonely, confused and afraid. She prayed that they would work things out and things worked out between them. There you go. Proof of God.

During that time, my sister and I stuck together. One memorable moment was when Mom told my sister that she was going to go to hell. My sister yelled, "Who would say that to their own kid?!" Yeah. Good times. Anyhoose, we made it through all of that and we learned to try to understand and deal with mom as she was without trying to change her, to appreciate her for the person she is and to try to still be honest with her about our own beliefs. I think we did a pretty good job.

Then, one day, my sister's best friend went into the hospital. She had experienced 3 prior miscarriages during her fervent attempts at having a child. During that time, while she was in the hospital trying to save the life of the fourth unborn child, my sister decided in her fear and worry to pray to god. She did it out of desperation and worry for her friend. In this prayer, she promised god that if he saved the baby, she would have faith for the rest of her life and would never doubt again.

So the baby lived and is a very happy kid today.

My sister is a Christian. She's a hip, coffeeshop, Texas non-denominational-wear-flip-flops-to-church Christian, but she was indeed Born Again. When she told me, seriously, I laughed my ass off. I thought she was kidding around. It would be like if TheAtheist suddenly showed up on the forum spouting scripture. When I realized she was serious, I had that Body Snatchers moment where I was sure she would point at me and scream that horrible Donald Sutherland scream...

I learned to be as close to my sister as possible without judging her, because I don't want her or mom judging me. We love each other, play cards, joke around and sometimes even discuss religion. It ended up working out okay.

But I miss my real sister. And my real mom, for that matter. The mom and sister I believed in and trusted to use thier heads and think through things rationally... The mom and sister I could joke about ANYTHING with... The mom and sister who don't believe (even though they don't say it) that my immortal soul is going to burn in hell. Everyday, I miss them.

The power of prayer? Absolutely powerful. Powerful enough to take my real sister and my real mother away from me.
 
And it isn't just a Texas thing. Here's something from the esteemed ABCUSA:

(http://baptistlikeme.blogspot.com/2007/04/american-baptists-called-to-national.html)


“God invites us to pray anytime, anywhere, anyplace,” says Dr. Roy Medley, general secretary of American Baptist Churches USA (ABCUSA). “That’s why I urge American Baptists across the United States to join others in prayer on May 3, which has been set aside as the 56th National Day of Prayer.” The official website [http://www.ndptf.org] offers a prayer that begins by asking God for wisdom “in such as time as this.”

“Even though we are often overwhelmed by the many challenges we face, God’s heart is open and is ever attuned to the needs of our world,” Dr. Medley says. “Often we find that God works to open our own hearts as a response to the very prayers we have offered, so that we become the hands and feet of Christ in building the Lord’s kingdom here on earth.”

Dr. Medley reminds people who need an example of a prayer to read the Lord’s Prayer found in Matthew 6:9-13. “Probably all of us have memorized that prayer since childhood,” he says. “However, I urge you not to recite it mindlessly, but to use it to fashion your own words to worship God, reiterate your trust in God, to offer your requests, to confess your sins, and to ask for God’s protection and bounty.

“Whether you use the prayer composed for the National Day of Prayer, the Lord’s prayer or one of your own choosing, I believe that when we pray with passion and purpose, God responds in powerful ways,” Dr. Medley says.



Also, it isn't just a Baptist thing:


From the National Catholic Reporter (I particularly enjoyed the orgasm metaphor and the snooty dis on the 'evangelical's out there...)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_4_40/ai_110808641


Yet when a dear friend and Episcopal priest suggested a healing prayer, I cringed. Way too evangelical for my tastes. What was she going to do, slap my forehead back and urge the worshipers to come forward and catch me when I swooned? I'm an introvert, for God's sake; I don't do spontaneous public expression. I like emotion when it's been refined, choreographed and labeled art. Besides, I wasn't sure I was supposed to pray for healing; I thought God's will might be more appropriate.

But how do you refuse when somebody offers to pray for you?

I showed up, trudged down the aisle, knelt while she smeared something that smelled like slightly rancid olive oil on my forehead. When she rested her hands on my hair, I felt the tingling, sweet consolation of any tender gesture, whether it's a child stroking your cheek or your husband's big hand cradling your neck.

And when I rose, I wasn't nervous anymore. I walked back down the aisle in the state of utter serenity I normally only achieve after orgasm or in extreme exhaustion.

Needless to say, her troubling melanoma cleared right up.

Maybe it's more politically correct to say something like you only pray for God's will... but really, how many believers sit in cancer wards and pray for god's will? Like my sister did, I believe most people pray for very specific things-- even if they can't admit it to themselves.
 
The Silence is DEAFENING!

The woo brigade are somewhat conspicuous by their absence in what is, courtesy of the thread title, an ideal opportunity for them to do some 'witnessing' about what religion is good for...

Apart from:
  • the ridiculously half-baked excuse that religion provides comfort for the hard of thinking (on a par with saying heroin is good cos it stops junkies going into withdrawal)
    and
  • the equally non-sensical idea that religion creates a sense of community and peace (when in reality it is the leading cause of bigotry, hate and war ever known)
it seems as though no=one has anything to add in defence of what must otherwise be the world's largest, longest-running and most profitable scam - with franchises in every known part of the world

It rather makes all those earnest protestations that the JREF and this forum are NOT 'atheist organisations' seem rather vacuous
 
six7s said:
[*]the equally non-sensical idea that religion creates a sense of community and peace (when in reality it is the leading cause of bigotry, hate and war ever known)
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If this and other ideas about the good about religion are non-sensical, why do so many religious people testify about the good that religion brings?
 
Jet Leg,

The good is in you. And inside the good Christian folks out there, like my sister and mom, who were always good people. When they were agnostic, they helped people and did good things because it felt nice to help people and do good things.

Now they do the same things, but they do it because they are afraid of eternal damnation and are gaining brownie points in the church.

So many people believe this and testify about the 'good' because they see the charitable things, the decent things that they and the congregations do in the name of the church. But isn't is true that you all could do every single one of those things just in the name of helping your fellow man?

And in fact, couldn't you help your fellow man BETTER if you focused less on building expensive churches and spending money on religious materials and invested that money more in assisting those who need help? Religious contributions make up over 60% of all charitable donations in the US and human service contributions make up around 13%. Just think about if that number was reversed.

FSM

ETA:
And how about for every "I'll pray for you," each person made an effort to DO something decent and nice and helpful to whomever they were going to spend time praying for. Cook a meal, clean a house, write a check, give a hug, listen, have a drink, hold a hand, whatever? Think about all that good intent- all of those wonderful feelings getting refocused into action. How different would our communities be?
 
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FSM said:
Jet Leg,

The good is in you. And inside the good Christian folks out there, like my sister and mom, who were always good people. When they were agnostic, they helped people and did good things because it felt nice to help people and do good things.

Now they do the same things, but they do it because they are afraid of eternal damnation and are gaining brownie points in the church.

So many people believe this and testify about the 'good' because they see the charitable things, the decent things that they and the congregations do in the name of the church. But isn't is true that you all could do every single one of those things just in the name of helping your fellow man?

And in fact, couldn't you help your fellow man BETTER if you focused less on building expensive churches and spending money on religious materials and invested that money more in assisting those who need help? Religious contributions make up over 60% of all charitable donations in the US and human service contributions make up around 13%. Just think about if that number was reversed.

FSM

ETA:
And how about for every "I'll pray for you," each person made an effort to DO something decent and nice and helpful to whomever they were going to spend time praying for. Cook a meal, clean a house, write a check, give a hug, listen, have a drink, hold a hand, whatever? Think about all that good intent- all of those wonderful feelings getting refocused into action. How different would our communities be?
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People can do good things because they like them, I agree. But religion sets an ideal for you - for example Jesus. You should be inspired by his example, and following him, do good deeds. I think that you will be more effective if you have a strong ideal, which you follow.

As to churches, I do not think that they are an end in themselves. They should serve the goal of doing good. You make churches -> at churches you preach about doing good -> and so in the end people do more good. At least it should be that way.

As to prayer, I think that one of the more important things about prayer is the fact that you conncet to god's love, and through that you feel an inspiration to go and help others. Not only the request from god to do something, but it should act as an inspiration for yourself.

And you did not answer my question directly. If religion is so bad, why so many people testify about how good it is?
 
Fear.
Weakness.
Anxiety.
Wishful thinking.

If Santa doesn't exist, why do so many kids believe in him?


ETA:
I never said religion never did any good, what I said was think about how much MORE good people could do if they did the same type of good things WITHOUT tying it to religion.

ETA 2:
What if the inspiration for good came from a healthy respect for the human race and an interest at seeing each other do well, have enough and not suffer?
 
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FSM said:
Fear.
Weakness.
Anxiety.
Wishful thinking.

If Santa doesn't exist, why do so many kids believe in him?
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Irrelevant. I did not ask why people believe in god.


I asked - if religion is so bad, why so many religious testify that it is so good? How can the above causes explain this?
 
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People would say that religion is good because they FEEL good about what they DO as a part of religion. But what my point was is that people can DO the same good things even better if it wasn't a part of religion. So the question is, why won't people give themselves the credit for the good they do and instead choose to attribute it to religion?

If you are talking about how religion makes someone FEEL good... well, plenty of things make people feel good. Santa makes my daughter FEEL wonderful. Santa makes the rowdy boys in her class behave. Santa is not real, however. So how valuable, reliable and REAL is that FEELING? Sure, it's tingly and nice and comfy and sweet...Until she starts to question things that don't make sense about Santa, that is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

It's hard to think about what you've believed in all of your life in a critical way. It hurts to think you've been wrong. It hurts to think you might have to disagree with your family and your friends. It hurts to think that maybe it makes more sense to just say, "I'm not really sure what's out there so I don't believe in anything specific," than to say that you believe. It is hard to have the stigma of being non-religious in a religious society.

So in short, your question is not just why do people say religion is so good, it is also in a larger sense, why do people choose to believe at all and then say that it is good?

They say it is good because they have to to keep believing in it.

They have to keep believing in it out of:


Fear.
Weakness.
Anxiety.
Wishful Thinking.
 
JetLeg said:
And you did not answer my question directly. If religion is so bad, why so many people testify about how good it is?
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Why do so many North Koreans think their country is the best place on Earth?

Seriously, JetLeg, you need to learn some history. All of your arguments are based on an overly idealistic view of humans that is completely refuted by historical evidence.
 
rocketdodger said:
Why do so many North Koreans think their country is the best place on Earth?

Seriously, JetLeg, you need to learn some history. All of your arguments are based on an overly idealistic view of humans that is completely refuted by historical evidence.
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North Koreans have a dictatorship that is interested in brainwashing the minds of their citizens.

Do you think the clergy is interested in brainwashing the minds of their followers, for cinical reasons?

The clergy are believers themselves, I don't buy the idea that they are cinically brainwashing everyone else.
 
JetLeg said:
North Koreans have a dictatorship that is interested in brainwashing the minds of their citizens.

Do you think the clergy is interested in brainwashing the minds of their followers, for cinical reasons?

The clergy are believers themselves, I don't buy the idea that they are cinically brainwashing everyone else.
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To which my immediately prior post is the perfect reply :

Seriously, JetLeg, you need to learn some history. All of your arguments are based on an overly idealistic view of humans that is completely refuted by historical evidence.

Let me spell it out for you.

1) Not all of the upper echelons of the North Korean government is un-brainwashed. In fact it is likely that all but those very close to Kimmy boy have been indoctrinated at least as well as the clergy.

2) Not all of the clergy are believers. The recent pedophile scandals should be more than enough to convince you of this.

3) Whether authorities brainwash their followers clinically or unintentionally is not relevant. Brainwashing is brainwashing. Was Hitler clinically brainwashing the Germans? Absolutely not. For the most part, he believed everything he touted. Contrast this with Kim Jong Il who, with a window to the rest of the world can obviously see that his country is sh--, is clearly lying to his people. Is the effect any different?
 
Religion, morality, good and evil are merely human concepts. As such they have no tangible aspects of their own. Whatever significance we may give to them comes from how and where we apply these concepts and from what perspective we are considering them.

A crutch is a useful tool to help someone recover from an injury. However as that injury heals if the person does not reduce their dependence on the crutch it becomes more of a determent then a benefit.

In cases when the injury is permanent the dependence on a crutch, wheelchair or whatever becomes a necessity rather then a temporary assistance.

The unfortunate fact is that some people are unable or unwilling to find a moral center within themselves and require some external validation of their morality.

If the fear of eternal damnation keeps some pervert from attacking my sisters or niece, then I thank his God for that.

Alternatively, if someone’s religion inspires them to blow themselves up on a crowded bus, then I condemn both them and their God.
 
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JetLeg said:
If this and other ideas about the good about religion are non-sensical, why do so many religious people testify about the good that religion brings?
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The number of people is irrelevant

Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal to Common Practice):

the claim, as evidence for an idea, that many people believe it, or used to believe it, or do it.

If the discussion is about social conventions, such as "good manners", then this is a reasonable line of argument.

However, in the 1800's there was a widespread belief that bloodletting cured sickness. All of these people were not just wrong, but horribly wrong, because in fact it made people sicker. Clearly, the popularity of an idea is no guarantee that it's right.

Similarly, a common justification for bribery is that "Everybody does it". And in the past, this was a justification for slavery.
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However, if you know WHY "so many religious people testify about the good that religion brings" AND their reasons are valid, please do tell us
 
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