Split Thread What is Communism

[dann]

That isn't what the Cuban refugees are saying.

No, of course it isn't. If they say that, they'll be deported by ICE. One Cuba told me about how he was deported because he wasn't willing to go on Radio Martí and denounce the Cuban government. He was gay, had been interned when Cuba was still homophobic, which he was understandably still pissed off about, and I think he went to the USA during the Mariel Boat lift.
Americans usually hear from people paid by the Epstein class, and they tell the stories that you and the Epstein class want to hear. Jørgen Boassen is far from the only one of those, and they tend not to be "the best people."

Oh. So they lost their freedom and got nothing in return. Got it. That makes communism sound so much more attractive.

That must have been the dumbest comment you could think of.

Yes: their home.

Are you saying they were born in a prison in El Salvador?
The US has deported thousands to third countries (TheGuardian, May 28, 2026)
I don't think you're unaware of this. You just pretend to be.

Every country does this, BTW.

Many countries deport illegal immigrants, but the USA has come up with particularly nasty ways of doing it.

Kerala is a district in India with a local parliamentary government, it is not a nation state. As a local government, its powers are intrinsically limited and subservient to the national government of India, which has never been communist.
Kerala is not trying communism. They cannot try communism. They don't have the power to try communism.

I actually know that much. I can read Wikipedia, too! And, yes, Keralans don't have the freedom to try communism.

The USA is so horrible, people risk death at the hands of ICE to get here or stay here.
I don't think you're proving what you think you're proving.

It takes a certain level of chutzpah to think that people have been considering the risk of begin killed by ICE before emigrating to the USA.
I think you are aware that they were shocked by the treatment they received. You just pretend that you aren't for the sake of the argument:

dann said:
Eight people have died in dealings with ICE so far in 2026 (TheGuardian/Congress.gov, Jan 28, 2026)

I think you also know that Good and Pretti weren't expecting to be killed by ICE. They were probably as naïve in this respect as you are.

 

[Ziggurat]

The US has deported thousands to third countries

Only when they don't want to go home. They always have the option to go home.

I don't think you're unaware of this.

I think you also know that Good and Pretti weren't expecting to be killed by ICE.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It's actually very, very easy to NOT get killed by ICE. Millions of people do it every day, without even trying.

They were probably as naïve in this respect as you are.

Indeed, it's very naive to accelerate your car towards a law enforcement officer with a drawn weapon and not expect that he might fire it. It's also very naive to get into physical fights with law enforcement officer while armed and not expect that bad things might happen.

Good and Pretti were indeed naive. They were indoctrinated into thinking that they were immune to consequences.

 

[dann]

Did you know that your buddy Che Guevara was racist? And a major homophobe too. Was he only pretending to be a communist?

No, he wasn't only pretending to be a communist.
Did you know what more a little more research would have unearthed if you hadn't been so happy with the first link you found?
Even Google AI knows!

Whether Che Guevara was a racist is a complex historical question with evidence showing prejudiced views in his early life, followed by a shift toward anti-racist activism and collaboration with Black revolutionaries later on. [1, 2]

There is much more! Google distinguishes between: "Early Views (Pre-Revolution)" and "Later Evolution (Post-Revolution)."
Try googling "Was Che Guevara a racist?"
Stop spreading lies based on nothing but ignorance and bigotry!

Unlike you, I have read Jon Lee Anderson's well-researched Che biography. I have also read his Motorcycle Diaries, on which Gogle bases what it says about his "Early Views."

 

[dann]

I didn't make sweeping generalizations. I named four specific revolutionary communists. You took issue with one of them, and ignored the other three under the pretext of me not providing "receipts" for things like Lenin's communist revolution.

I did indeed! I told you why! And you never delivered!

Anyway, you seem to believe that the violent revolution is part of the Marxist process. If you're right, that debunks the claim that real communism has never been tried.

I don't give a ◊◊◊◊ about what you think I seem to believe. And once again, you leave out the receipts.

 

[Ziggurat]

No, he wasn't only pretending to be a communist.

Che Geuvara was a whiny little bitch who died crying. I notice you don't contest his homophobia, and the "evolution" of his racist views don't exactly excuse his murders.

 

[dann]

As for Cuba... Is this really the best communism has to offer? Can a communist state really not survive without unrestricted access to the capitalist markets of the west?

Is this really the best argument you have to offer? Pretending that the blockade isn't more than a somewhat restricted access to the capitalist markets of the west?

 

[dann]

Exactly. I'm not at all interested in trying to keep track of whatever opinions you believe other people might have. If possible, I'm even less interested in taking any responsibility for them, let alone account for them.

No, it's obvious that what you are interested in is limited to making claims about what I believe, which is why you 'account' for them as little as you 'account' for anything else, making it up as you go along.

 

[dann]

And probably unachievable as long as Human Beings are involved.
My favorite statement on Marxism is "Nice Theory. Wrong Species".
BTW I think the same way about Libertarian Theory. Equally unrealistic.

Ah yes, the eternal, 'Alas, human nature doesn't allow it,' with which conservatives and centrists alike dismiss any and all criticism of capitalism.

 

[dann]

Only when they don't want to go home. They always have the option to go home.
I don't think you're unaware of this.

On the contrary, I know that you are lying again.
No, they don't always have the option to go home, and I think you know that, too! Look it up if you don't!
Considering that you are an American, you are surprisingly ignorant of what the USA does.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It's actually very, very easy to NOT get killed by ICE. Millions of people do it every day, without even trying.

Ah yes, we're at the cynical stage of dismissing reality now. As if Good and Pretty were trying to get killed.
I know how you would have treated the hypothetical argument from me: 'Millions of Cubans live their daily lives without being arrested or harassed, without even trying.

Indeed, it's very naive to accelerate your car towards a law enforcement officer with a drawn weapon and not expect that he might fire it. It's also very naive to get into physical fights with law enforcement officer while armed and not expect that bad things might happen.

Trying to get away from a law enforcement officer with a drawn weapon obviously deserves capital punishment in the USA. That's how easy it is to get killed by U.S. law enforcement in the USA.

Good and Pretti were indeed naive. They were indoctrinated into thinking that they were immune to consequences.

You are the one who's indoctrinated. You can't even see how hollow your "Millions of people do it every day, without even trying" rings.

 

[dann]

Che Geuvara was a whiny little bitch who died crying. I notice you don't contest his homophobia, and the "evolution" of his racist views don't exactly excuse his murders.

You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't you?
I don't contest Che Gueavara's homophobia because he did indeed hold homophobic views. So did Castro, and so did the Cuban revolution in general.
The difference between the Cuban and the MAGA homophobes is that the Cubans got better!
Unfortunately, Che didn't live long enough to be a part of that process, but Fidel Castro took the blame for the persecution of Cuba gays (BBC, Aug 31, 2026), and his niece now runs the Cuban National Center for Sex Education:

Mariela Castro (Wikipedia)
Mariela Castro Espín (born 27 July 1962) is the director of the Cuban National Center for Sex Education in Havana, as well as the National Commission for Comprehensive Attention to Transsexual People, and an activist for LGBT rights in Cuba. Castro is an outspoken advocate for the LGBT+ community as well as dissolving some of the antiquated stigmas and stereotypes that surround the community.

Unlike Republicans, who are trying to bring those antiquated stigmas and stereotypes back with a vengeance!

You really need to educate yourself! You don't know ◊◊◊◊!
There's an ISF thread about Evangelical Homophobia in Cuba I can recommend. It also covers the family law passed in September 2023 after a referendum.
And there's this brand-new YouTube video that I haven't watched yet but look forward to watching:

What Cuba Got Right About LGBTQ+ Rights (That the West Won't Tell You) (revolutionaryth0t on YouTube, June 19, 2026 – 27:40 min.)
Cuba went from viewing homosexuality as a form of bourgeois decadence to passing one of the most progressive family law codes in the world. What changed? In this video, we explore the complex history of LGBTQ+ rights in Cuba, from the repression in the early days of the revolution to the Federation of Cuban Women and the frameworks that ultimately led to the passing of the 2022 Families Code.

People who are genuinely interested in the whole process should watch the 1993 Cuban film Fresa y Chocolate:
Strawberries and Chocolate: Historical context and impact (Wikipedia)

But it's probably too much for Republicans to stomach. They are such whiny little bitches about it.

 

[Ziggurat]

Trying to get away from a law enforcement officer with a drawn weapon obviously deserves capital punishment in the USA.

Driving a vehicle at someone is assault with deadly force. Officers are allowed to respond with deadly force. If you think Cuban cops wouldn't do that too, you're delusional.

Oh, who am I kidding. You think the Cuban dictatorship is better than American democracy. There's really no "if" about your delusion.

 

[Helen]

How do you shoot someone through the side window of their car, if they're driving their vehicle at you?

 

[Ziggurat]

How do you shoot someone through the side window of their car, if they're driving their vehicle at you?

Watch the video.

Do you share dann's pro-communist views that Cuba is better than the US?

 

[Helen]

I have seen several videos from different viewpoints, and he shot her through the side window in every single one of them.

 

[Ziggurat]

This thread isn't about Good. It's about communism.

Do you think Cuba is better than the US? Do you think the Good case proves that? That's the only relevance, and I'm not going to wade into the details, it's not worth it. dann seems to think the case proves Cuba is better. I don't.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

That free education and health care are so wonderful, people risk their lives to flee it.

You're just trolling at this point, right?

...Right?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Do you share dann's pro-communist views that Cuba is better than the US?

Oh, you are. Got it.

 

[Ziggurat]

dann thinks communism is better than capitalism. I don't. That's not trolling, that's an honest disagreement. Where do you stand on the issue?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Where do you stand on the issue?

My stance is I don't waste time on bad-faith actors who are just in a thread to willfully misinterpret and troll.

 

[theprestige]

How do you shoot someone through the side window of their car, if they're driving their vehicle at you?

The same way you shoot them from any other angle, once they start threatening everyone around them with a deadly weapon.