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What is a fair share

In California, the government steals a lot of private land from lower income individuals under imminent domain laws using entities called "redevelopment agencies", then turn around and sell the land to developers for huge profits. It has happened not too far down the road from me, to an old family friend of ours. The land is now being developed into a real upscale golf course with a housing development sporting houses in the 1/2 to 1 million dollar range. They'd be cutting their own throats to raise property taxes.

Please vote these Democrat thugs out of office, my fellow Californians :mad:
 
Forgive a bit of topic drift, but I have a related question.

Mostly for Yeti, but open to all.

Is ther a place where progressive tax is "unfair", where the tax rate is just plain too high, even for Bill Gates?

Is an 80% tax rate ok? 90%, 99%, 100%?
 
SRW said:


But rich people do not take up more space than the rest of us. They do not cost the government more to maintain.

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Says who? I think your limiting the view of what makes up public services. Its not just fire and police. Think of what rich guy is accessing. Security and Exchange Commission for his stocks and bonds? Or the FAA and govt airports for all his business, the courts for all his probate and civil litigation needs, the banking system, the infrastructer that moves his companies goods, and so on and so on.

Is rich guy not getting his monies worth?
 
Tmy said:


Says who? I think your limiting the view of what makes up public services. Its not just fire and police. Think of what rich guy is accessing. Security and Exchange Commission for his stocks and bonds? Or the FAA and govt airports for all his business, the courts for all his probate and civil litigation needs, the banking system, the infrastructer that moves his companies goods, and so on and so on.

Is rich guy not getting his monies worth?
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What do you consiter rich? The top 4% starts at $160,000 per year. You are thinking of the top 10% of that 4%.
 
Rich?? It depends. I normally wouldnt consider 160 a year to be poor, then again the guy may live on Nantucket and have 3 special needs kids at home.

Im not saying tax the rich 100% but I do think its OK for people who make more to pay more.

Theres a point were you hit that level of your neccescities are taken care of and the rest is gravy. Not that all the money should go to the govt, but does it really "hurt" to tax some of that.
 
Tormac said:
Forgive a bit of topic drift, but I have a related question.

Mostly for Yeti, but open to all.

Is ther a place where progressive tax is "unfair", where the tax rate is just plain too high, even for Bill Gates?

Is an 80% tax rate ok? 90%, 99%, 100%?
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Well, a 100% tax is pretty steep. But considering how much damage Bill's crappy software has done to the economy, I would consider that a fair.

Actually, if you are asking me, I have a radically different tax plan. Tax unhealthy lifestyles extra. Tax fast food. Tax soda pop. Legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them. Tax beer... tax bullets.. tax porno movies... tax purple running lights!

The worse something is for society, the more it gets taxed. Tax telephone psychic hotlines.. tax fruit stripe gum... tax eminem albums...
 
The PATENT office!! THeres another govt service used by the rich. How many patents does Bill Gates have. Damn billionaires eating up all th govt services!
 
EvilYeti said:



Actually, if you are asking me, I have a radically different tax plan. Tax unhealthy lifestyles extra. Tax fast food. Tax soda pop. Legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them. Tax beer... tax bullets.. tax porno movies... tax purple running lights!

The worse something is for society, the more it gets taxed. Tax telephone psychic hotlines.. tax fruit stripe gum... tax eminem albums...
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I like this Idea, which is why they should legelize pot, so it and the wealthy pot growers can be taxed.
 
SRW said:


I like this Idea, which is why they should legelize pot, so it and the wealthy pot growers can be taxed.
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I wish a still had the calculations, I once figured out that if pot was legalized, regulated and stiffly taxed in CA is would cover about 40% of the budget deficiet. This is assuming the money currently spent on interdiction and incarceration would instead be spent on regulating the industry.

It would also be a big boon for tourism and the cheesy poof industry.
 
EvilYeti said:


Actually, if you are asking me, I have a radically different tax plan. Tax unhealthy lifestyles extra. Tax fast food. Tax soda pop. Legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them. Tax beer... tax bullets.. tax porno movies... tax purple running lights!

The worse something is for society, the more it gets taxed. Tax telephone psychic hotlines.. tax fruit stripe gum... tax eminem albums...
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Ok, I'll ask it... Who decides what is worse for the economy? What puts purple running lights on par with drugs? What is so unhealthy about pop? Etc...
 
The real problem with the "Sin Tax" is that it drives the economy underground. If you start taxing cigarettes too much then people will quit or start purchasing them on the black market.

I have heard advertisement on the radio for Tax free Indian cigarettes.

A few year ago there was a luxury tax on cars over $30,000, boats ETC. This caused a rash of cars to come out at 29,999, and a boom in the Mexican boat business.
 
SRW said:
The real problem with the "Sin Tax" is that it drives the economy underground. If you start taxing cigarettes too much then people will quit or start purchasing them on the black market.
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If most people bought black market cigarrretes, brewed their own beer and made bathtub gin I would agree with you.

We do tax these items, fairly stiffly in some cases and people will still pay.

I see no reason marijuanna would be any different.
 
EvilYeti said:


If most people bought black market cigarrretes, brewed their own beer and made bathtub gin I would agree with you.

We do tax these items, fairly stiffly in some cases and people will still pay.

I see no reason marijuanna would be any different.
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I agree, but there is already a large black market on Cigarretes, and as the price goes closer to $5.00 a pack that will only go up. Pot is already underground, and people will not pay for legal pot if it is taxed too much. (If it is cheeper to purchase underground).
 
SRW said:


I agree, but there is already a large black market on Cigarretes, and as the price goes closer to $5.00 a pack that will only go up. Pot is already underground, and people will not pay for legal pot if it is taxed too much. (If it is cheeper to purchase underground).
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Yes people will always purchase stuff on the black market. I've seen more than one person smuggle cigs across the border from Tijuanna, so I'm aware it happens. I've also seen 1000X more just buy them at the 7-11 and pay more, as its more convienient. People are lazy.

Currently NO marijuanna is taxed, at all, so its totally black market. Move it above board and you are looking at literally billions of dollars in revenue for the state, even if some the business stays underground. Most people are just not going to go to the extra trouble and risk.
 
Life is not fair.

Jessica Blue said:


What ideals are those? Protecting the interests of the rich so they get even fatter and richer? The poor have interests too...and society should consider those as well. Why should only the needs and wants of the wealthy count?

I don't see any shocking unfairness with scaled taxation. Rich people can well afford to pay more tax and still be fatter and richer than most other people.

"Justice"? Don't make me laugh.
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I don't think the state should be in the business of deciding how much of your own money you should be allowed to keep. The more out of our lives and the more out of our pockets the state is, the better it would be for all of us. The government should not be in the business of the redistribution of income or instituting economic "justice". It should not even be in a position to know how much money you make or have. Government involvment has been the greatest contributor to the fundamental inequities in our society. Government takes care of itself and of its friends and has forever leaving the little guy out of the equation. You are delusional if you think big government is a friend in any way shape or form to the little guy.
 
Well I guess I don't have your deeply rooted fear and cynicism of all government billydkid. It's up to us to keep governments accountable, through transparency, open discussion, an independent media and ultimately the ballot box. Yes, there is much amiss about this modern democracy but shrinking government wont solve corruption...we should demand more of our governments, not less.

For me, it all depends on what sort of society you want to live in. Whether you want to live in a place where there are decent services for all citizens, a welfare safety net and access to basics like good education and healthcare...and only government can achieve this for us. Or...

If you want to live in a highly competative, small government world where the poor must rely on selective charity to survive, where there are great divisions based on wealth, a tiered health and education system which provides great services for the rich and leftovers for the poor.


Government involvment has been the greatest contributor to the fundamental inequities in our society.
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Just turn back the clock to the small government of the 19th century and see how "equal" we were. Left to its own rules, a capitalist society will be anything but fair. That's already been proven.

Who is a friend of the little guy billydkid? Laissez faire capitalism? Business? Benelovent rich people? No regulations...?
 
SRW said:
The real problem with the "Sin Tax" is that it drives the economy underground. If you start taxing cigarettes too much then people will quit or start purchasing them on the black market.

I have heard advertisement on the radio for Tax free Indian cigarettes.

A few year ago there was a luxury tax on cars over $30,000, boats ETC. This caused a rash of cars to come out at 29,999, and a boom in the Mexican boat business.
Click to expand...

Every chance I get, I run over to Nevada to get a couple of cartons of cigs.
 
A fair share is:

If I've got a lot, what the guy below is paying.
If I've got a little, its only fair the above guy pay my way.
 
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