What happened to the surplus?

JoeTheJuggler said:
I'd answer that adjusted dollars are in fact real dollars.
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Normally dollar adjusted only takes inflation into account, but for the purposes of this comparison the choice to adjust for population as well is a good one and makes for a much more legitimate comparison.
 
BeAChooser said:
Did you miss the fact (from my first post) that the actual deficit went back up in FY2001 ... which was a year based on Clinton's budget proposals, not Bush's? Even discounting the supplemental appropriations and emergency supplimental appropriations that Bush added before Sept 30, 2011, the actual debt was already headed back up.
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The ecconomy also went into a nose-dive. Clinton didn't count on that.

So it's unfair to blame Bush for the trend. And those supplemental appropriations were needed ... or are you suggesting we shouldn't have bothered reacting to 9/11? :D
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Not in the way that the merry morons did. Only an idiot cuts taxes and borrows money to fight a war.
 
JudeBrando said:
So you're calling Obama an idiot then?
Lefty, why are you such a racist?
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Yes, for bowing to right-wing pressure to extend the Bush tax cuts. It isn't racism if you criticize both the black guy and the white guy for the same thing, but great way to attempt to deflect criticism you've received elsewhere. Glenn Beck would be proud that you were paying attention when he did it irl.
 
Upchurch said:
Yes, for bowing to right-wing pressure to extend the Bush tax cuts. It isn't racism if you criticize both the black guy and the white guy for the same thing, but great way to attempt to deflect criticism you've received elsewhere. Glenn Beck would be proud that you were paying attention when he did it irl.
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Was more war "right-wing pressure" too?

But I'm impressed that you at least knew what I meant.

The racist thing was a joke. You see... although we can and do sometimes have points of agreement, Lefty and me couldn't disagree much more most of the time, but we get along fine otherwise really... I think he'd say the same. You, apparently, are utterly humorless. Beck huh whatever who cares.
 
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JudeBrando said:
But I'm impressed that you at least knew what I meant.
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How absolutely condescending of you. Thanks.

JudeBrando said:
The racist thing was a joke. You see... although we can and do sometimes have points of agreement, Lefty and me couldn't disagree much more most of the time, but we get along fine otherwise really... I think he'd say the same. You, apparently, are utterly humorless. Beck huh whatever who cares.
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I call Poe, then. You've certainly had your extremist points of view. Without some sort of indication to the alternative, it is not unreasonable to assume you are being serious.
 
JudeBrando said:
So you're calling Obama an idiot then?
Lefty, why are you such a racist?
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Obama is trying to leave Afghanistan and Iraq and the same idiots who want to cut veterans' benefit to preserve the tax cuts are throwing a hissy fit.

Obama did not cut the taxes on the fat class. The Shrub did. Obama didn't have the votes in the Senate to tell the Republicons where to stuff the tax cuts when they expired.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
No, of course not. The numbers for 2001 are adjusted as explained a dozen or so times starting with the very first post. They factor out a* source of expense that Bush policies were not responsible for.
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Oh, so it's a Blame Bush graph. That was never made clear. That puts it in a whole new light.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Oh, so it's a Blame Bush graph. That was never made clear. That puts it in a whole new light.
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Don't be an idiot. It was made clear in the first post and the links it contained. My explanation was about how they went out of their way to be fair to Bush and not blame expenses that were due to population rise on Bush.
 
BeAChooser said:
Yes, which as explained in my first post is just smoke and mirrors ... a way of hiding the real debt. You did read that post, didn't you? :D
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How is it smoke and mirrors when the people are clear that it is about publicly held debt?
 
daenku32 said:
How is it smoke and mirrors when the people are clear that it is about publicly held debt?
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LOL! Do you really think most people are "clear", when it's claimed there was a *surplus* during Clinton's second term, that the claim only refers to the public debt rather than the national debt … rather than all the obligations the government has placed on it's citizens? No, I think most people people think of the national debt when they hear the word debt. They would be surprised to find that Clinton created a *surplus* by stealing from social security. They would be surprised to learn that the national debt actually went up throughout the Clinton years.

And just to prove you are wrong … to prove most people think in terms of national debt … look at how the current debt crisis is described in the sort of media that most people read (USA Today, the Wall Street Journal, NPR, ABC News, the Washington Times, the Washington Post ... just to pick some examples):

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-07-07-debt-ceiling-talks-obama-boehner-reid_n.htm

President Obama and congressional leaders have agreed to seek about $4trillion in savings from the spiraling national debt over the next decade.
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No mention of public debt in that article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303745304576361852357390230.html

The debate in Washington is serious as a heart attack: whether the United States should raise its debt ceiling so it can borrow more money to stay afloat. The statutory ceiling on our national debt—our legal borrowing limit—is $14.3 trillion.
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No mention of public debt in that article.

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/29/135829375/debt-crisis-hangs-over-washington-politics

Congress has already passed a budget that will soon drive the national debt above the limit.
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No mention of public debt in that article.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-debt-crisis-congress-reach-solution-debt-ceiling/story?id=13224258

The U.S. Debt Crisis: Can Congress Reach a Solution?

The National Debt Clock in New York is seen in this Jan. 22, 2011 file photo. As Congress turns its attention to the budget and the country's fiscal situation, the debt ceiling debate that has been simmering underneath the surface could come to a boil in the near future.
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No mention of public debt in that article.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/30/the-democrats-debt-crisis/

Democrats have yet to put forth any plan to deal with America’s fiscal crisis. The national debt is at $14.3 trillion and growing daily; this year’s budget deficit alone is projected to be $1.5 trillion.
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No mention of public debt in that article.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/brea...ws-exclusive-inside-auction/story?id=13839249

As Vice President Joe Biden and the bi-partisan committee working to deal with deficit-reduction gets to work on three days of meetings, ABC News' Jon Karl got an exclusive insider look at ground zero for the national debt.
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And the only mention of public debt in that article might lead the uniformed to conclude it's the same thing as the national debt.

And best of all, there's the Washington Post's deceptive articles ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...e-debt/2011/04/28/AFFU7rNF_story.html?hpid=z2

Running in the red: How the U.S., on the road to surplus, detoured to massive debt

… snip …

In January 2001, with the budget balanced and clear sailing ahead, the Congressional Budget Office forecast ever-larger annual surpluses indefinitely. The outlook was so rosy, the CBO said, that Washington would have enough money by the end of the decade to pay off everything it owed.

… snip …

Now, instead of tending a nest egg of more than $2 trillion, the federal government expects to owe more than $10 trillion to outside investors by the end of this year. The national debt is larger, as a percentage of the economy, than at any time in U.S. history except for the period shortly after World War II.
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There is no mention of public debt in that article and it leave you with the clear impression that there was a surplus during the Clinton years. When there was not … not in terms of the national debt.

You starting to get the picture? :D
 
Upchurch said:
Yes, for bowing to right-wing pressure to extend the Bush tax cuts. It isn't racism if you criticize both the black guy and the white guy for the same thing, but great way to attempt to deflect criticism you've received elsewhere. Glenn Beck would be proud that you were paying attention when he did it irl.
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JudeBrando said:
Was more war "right-wing pressure" too?
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You had to respond to the unnecessary stuff but avoid this question?

Is Obama ever responsible for Obama yet? Will he ever be?
 
leftysergeant said:
Obama is trying to leave Afghanistan and Iraq and...
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The Republicans couldn't do anything. Is Obama responsible for what Obama says and does? Will Obama ever be responsible for what Obama says and does? Will he campaign again on getting us out on his first day? And you'd support that same campaign again...
Obama did not.. The Shrub did. Obama didn't.. the Republicons..
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When will you hold Obama accountable for Obama? I know.. I know... some never will.
 
Many, many liberals today were ready to hold Obama accountable for what the Washington Post reported about his possible willingness to cut Social Security, and still are pending the accuracy of the report.
 
The utter hypocrisy of liberal media …

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-mitchell-thought-raising-debt-ceiling-big-e#

MSNBC's Chris Matthews and Andrea Mitchell have been telling viewers in recent days that Republicans considering blocking an increase in the debt ceiling could be creating a financial crisis.

Seven years ago after George W. Bush was re-elected and the debt ceiling had been raised in November 2004, the perilously liberal couple felt Republicans should be "embarrassed" for having done so (transcripts follow with commentary):

… snip …

Yet as NewsBusters has been reporting, Matthews has in the past several days twice referred to Republicans as terrorists because they're refusing to support a raise in the debt ceiling if it includes tax increases.
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