Split Thread What happened to Flight 93?

[Disbelief]

I have no idea. My main concern is that the Shanksville ditch does not appear to contain a 100 ton commercial airliner.

Of course the ditch would not contain the entire plane. Why would you think that it would?

 

[dtugg]

I have no idea. My main concern is that the Shanksville ditch does not appear to contain a 100 ton commercial airliner.

So you admit that all you have is your own personal incredulity! Not that this is a shock.

Oh and of course it wasn't all in the ditch much (most?) of it was in an area much larger than that (although smaller than the one claimed by the twoofers who say it was shot down).

Also, you said that there were many possibilities between hijacking and crashing. What are these possibilities? So far all you seem to have is not crashing. I would hate to see you run away from yet another direct question.

 

[johnny karate]

I have no idea. My main concern is that the Shanksville ditch does not appear to contain a 100 ton commercial airliner.

When did you go there to conduct your investigation?

 

[Toke]

I have no idea. My main concern is that the Shanksville ditch does not appear to contain a 100 ton commercial airliner.

Yes, good point, there should be a tail sticking out of the hole.
And some wingtips pointing upwards at the edges.

 

[BigAl]

I have no idea. My main concern is that the Shanksville ditch does not appear to contain a 100 ton commercial airliner.

It seems that none of the first responders that saw the hole see anything strange about it.

Do you deny all the other evidence, too?

Some Flight 93 Evidence Updated 5/27/09
http://911links.webs.com/Flight93.htm

[1] DNA for all passangers crew found and identified
[2] The hole
[3] 95% of the airplane recovered in the hole
[4] Black boxes recovered and analyzed
[5] Video of Phanton hitting wall
[6] Lots of Flight 93 links
[7] 1960 Air-to-air collision NYC
[8] Analysis of Flt 93 Balck Boxes
[9] 1,200 investigators and first responders,.
[10] Remains of aircraft in storage.
[11] Papers & light objects found up to 8 miles from the crash
[12] Pictures
[13] Largest peice of Flt 93 was half a ton
[14] Coroner Statement
[15] Flight Data Recorder data and WTC data for Flt 93
[16] THE NORAD RESPONSE TO 9/11 COmplete timing and FAA info
[17] VIDEO: Eyewitnesses to Flt93 crash
[18] Phone calls from Flight 93
[19] Flight 93 Radar track
[20] Crash debris found 8 miles away
[21] Olsen Phone calls discussed
[1] --------------------------------------------------------------
DNA http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011220shanksville1220p2.asp http://preview.tinyurl.com/2fhpe8 Links to forensics and hijacker identification http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/linksto911forensicsaqndvictimidentificat The hijacker's license http://bp0.blogger.com/_rLV-ZuNPwJ4/RzjIqhqANiI/AAAAAAAAAuw/8Ve-LbpabIs/s1600-h/PA00101A.jpg

[2] --------------------------------------------------------------
The Hole: The aircraft impacted at approximately 563 mph (906 km/h), at a 40 degree angle.[26] The impact left a crater about 115 feet (35 m) wide and 10 to 12 feet (about 3.5 m) deep. There were no survivors among the 44 passengers, crew and terrorists (all were killed by the impact or had been previously killed during flight). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93 http://preview.tinyurl.com/5tvkk
[3] --------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the in the news on 9/24/2001, CNN reports 95% or the aircraft was recovered form that hole including both black boxes. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/inv.pennsylvania.site.index.html CNN.com FBI finished with Pennsylvania crash site probe SHANKSVILLE, Pennsylvania (CNN) --The FBI announced Monday that its investigation of the site where a hijacked jet slammed into a field here is complete and that 95 percent of the plane was recovered. The federal investigation into the September 11 terrorist attacks continues. Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley. Crowley said the biggest piece of the plane that was recovered was a 6-by-7-foot piece of the fuselage skin, including about four windows. The heaviest piece, Crowley said, was part of an engine fan, weighing about 1,000 pounds. Flight 93 was one of four jets hijacked Sept. 11. Authorities believe the flight, which originated in Newark, New Jersey, and had been destined for San Francisco, was headed for the nation's capital, where the hijackers may have intended to slam it into the White House or the Capitol. Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller have praised the passengers of that flight, saying it appears their actions in trying to regain control of the aircraft averted a greater tragedy. People who spoke by phone with passengers after the plane was hijacked say that after the passengers found out about the earlier World Trade Center attack, they decided to try to overpower the hijackers. And officials familiar with the flight's cockpit voice recorder say it shows there was a "definite struggle," which they described as desperate and wild, between hijackers and some of the passengers. All 44 people on board the flight were killed when it slammed into the ground.
[4] --------------------------------------------------------------
Black boxes recovered and analyzed http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf Black boxes recovered and analyzed http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf Of the airliner parts, the pieces that investigators judged most significant were the plane's cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, both unearthed within 3 1/2 days of the crash. The voice recording that remained is being analyzed for clues to confirm the identities of the four hijackers who seized the Newark-to-San Francisco flight before it crashed. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010925scene0925p2.asp
[5] --------------------------------------------------------------
Video of Phanton hitting wall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--_RGM4Abv8
[6] --------------------------------------------------------------
Lots of Flight 93 links
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93shanksvillesummaryofevidence,man
[7] --------------------------------------------------------------
Example Air-to-air collision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_New_York_air_disaster
[8] --------------------------------------------------------------
Black boxes recovered and analyzed http://www.ntsb.gov/info/autopilot_AA77_UA93_study.pdf Discussed : http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102924
[9] --------------------------------------------------------------
1,200 investigators and first responders,. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/flight93shanksvillesummaryofevidence,man
[10] --------------------------------------------------------------
Remains of aircraft in storage. Since it had no more use for it, the FBI turned the airliner debris -- but not the data and voice recorders -- over to United Airlines yesterday. Asked what United will do with the debris, airline spokeswoman Whitney Staley said, "I don't think a decision has been made ... but we're not commenting." http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010925scene0925p2.asp "With the recovery Friday night of the cockpit voice recorder from United Flight 93, workers at the crash site have shifted their focus to a long, arduous search for what remains of the jet and its victims. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916otherjetnat5p5.asp
[11] --------------------------------------------------------------
Debris from the crash has been found up to 8 miles from the crash site, but searchers are concentrating on the crater where most of the remains are located. Papers and other light objects were carried aloft by the explosion after impact of the plane and they were transported by a nine-knot wind. http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916otherjetnat5p5.asp
[12] --------------------------------------------------------------
Pictures http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200061.html http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200062.html Live news coverage showing debris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeWi0JpI__M The hijacker's license http://bp0.blogger.com/_rLV-ZuNPwJ4/RzjIqhqANiI/AAAAAAAAAuw/8Ve-LbpabIs/s1600-h/PA00101A.jpg
[13] --------------------------------------------------------------
FBI spokesman Bill Crowley said that the largest piece
of plane recovered was a shred of fuselage skin that
covered four windows -- a piece seven feet long
from a jetliner that was 155 feet long. The
heaviest piece, he said, was a half-ton section
of engine fan.

http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010925scene0925p2.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A56110-2002May8&notFound=true
[14] --------------------------------------------------------------
Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service." As a funeral director, Miller says, he is honored and humbled to preside over what has become essentially an immense cemetery stretching far into the scenic wooded mountain ridge. He considers it the final resting place of 40 national heroes. He saw dust, not bodies.
[15] --------------------------------------------------------------
Flight Data Recorder data and WTC data for Flt 93 http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm
[16] --------------------------------------------------------------
THE NORAD RESPONSE TO 9/11 Compiled by Andrew Burfield http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2164577#post2164577
[17] --------------------------------------------------------------
VIDEO: Eyewitnesses to Flt93 crash (0:1:15) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxsmhnZeM6w
[18] --------------------------------------------------------------
Phone calls from Flight 93 9/11 Commission folder entitled "Flight 93 Calls - General". http://911myths.com/index.php/Image:Team7_Box12_93Calls_General.2.pdf
[19] --------------------------------------------------------------
Flight 93 Radar track http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/93RadarTrack.jpg
[20] --------------------------------------------------------------
Crash debris found 8 miles away
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_47536.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12942.html
[21] --------------------------------------------------------------
Olsen Phone calls discussed
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4687535#post4687535

 

[stateofgrace]

I have no idea. My main concern is that the Shanksville ditch does not appear to contain a 100 ton commercial airliner.

Really? So you have no idea what happened to actually cause the plane to crash and it "appears" to you that something is wrong with the crash site?

Basically in your unqualified opinion you have no idea what the crash site should "appear" like and no idea why.

 

[twinstead]

As usual, simple arguments from incredulity ROCK.

 

[FineWine]

The point you're failing to comprehend is that Flight 93 being in the ditch is not contingent upon the hijacking. The hijacking could have occurred but the plane did not have to end up in the ditch. This is the last time I'm going to restate this rather obvious situation. I'm not responsible for the density of obstinate posters.

Why do you use the term "ditch"? The plane dug up the ground. Do you suppose your imaginary conspiracy dug a ditch in order to pretend that a hijacked plane crashed there? As always, you frauds refuse to explain where Flight 93 ended up.

 

[T.A.M.]

I answer sincere, direct questions, not unrealistic requests for hundreds of pages of speculation. As you guys say, "that's so 2006."

So you don't have a theory as to who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and how they did it, you just know that the USG was some how involved in carrying out the attacks?

TAM

 

[johnny karate]

So you don't have a theory as to who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and how they did it, you just know that the USG was some how involved in carrying out the attacks?

Apparently they deployed a crack team of Black Ops ditch-diggers to Shanksville as part of their master plan.

 

[T.A.M.]

No this really gets to me. The truthers come in here, and they have all sorts of

"But what about" this, and "Well this isn't right" that, but do they actually have a single frigging clue what they think happened instead? No. They play frigging dumb, and say, "I am just asking questions."

I just wish the whole lot of them would put up or shut up.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

Here's a question I have about Flight 93. Did Todd Beamer say, "Let's Roll" as a rallying cry for the passengers to attack the cockpit?

 

[tsig]

So we have Saudi patsy hijackers, who hijacked the planes (so therefore not patsies, since they really are hijackers ), but they didn't crash the planes and instead flew them somewhere never to be found again.

Is that pretty much it, Red?

And why did they hijack the planes to begin with?

The hijackers took the plane but did not know that the Secret Cabal still had remote control of the planes.

Then the SC had an executive meeting and by the time they decided what to do a lower level operative lost control of the plane and crashed it.

 

[chillzero]

Here's a question I have about Flight 93. Did Todd Beamer say, "Let's Roll" as a rallying cry for the passengers to attack the cockpit?

Why don't you finish dealing with the last piece of nonsense first before adding more?

 

[dtugg]

Here's a question I have about Flight 93. Did Todd Beamer say, "Let's Roll" as a rallying cry for the passengers to attack the cockpit?

According to the operator on the phone with him, yes. Do we know for sure that's what he said? No. Does it really matter? No.

Are you going to answer the direct questions directed at you or are you going to prove yourself a liar?

 

[twinstead]

Here's a question I have about Flight 93. Did Todd Beamer say, "Let's Roll" as a rallying cry for the passengers to attack the cockpit?

His wife was told by an operator that he said it, I guess you'd need to talk to Lisa Jefferson. She is that operator. Maybe she's in on it.

It IS however a phrase that he said quite often, though, according to his wife.

 

[BigAl]

Here's a question I have about Flight 93. Did Todd Beamer say, "Let's Roll" as a rallying cry for the passengers to attack the cockpit?

Either way, what difference does it make compared to all the evidence for the hijacking of Flight 93?

 

[stateofgrace]

Here's a question I have about Flight 93. Did Todd Beamer say, "Let's Roll" as a rallying cry for the passengers to attack the cockpit?

I thought you said you had no idea what happened between the hijacking and the crashing? If you have no idea, then how do you know about Todd Beamer ?The reality is you have every idea what happened and you have every idea that there is a lot of evidence to support it.You know about the passengers, you know about the phone calls they made, you know about the plans to attack the cockpit, so why did you say you had no idea?

So, Red, since you now have some ideas let me ask you again, what do you think happened between the hijacking and the crashing?

 

[aggle-rithm]

I answer sincere, direct questions, not unrealistic requests for hundreds of pages of speculation. As you guys say, "that's so 2006."

If it takes hundreds of pages to state your theory, then your theory is in trouble.

The "OCT", as truthers call it, can be summed up in a paragraph.

Got anything like that?

 

[johnny karate]

Can someone tell me what color socks the pilots of Flight 93 were wearing?