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What Europe?

Berlusconi

Scholar
B
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
111
I don't understand one point. The only true Allies the Americans have in Europe are the UK and Italy, Blair and Berlusconi.
Why are you so critics regarding our two countries? Would you prefer to see the UK and Italy among the traitors, France and Germany?:(

You should know the UK and Italy have payed a lot to support the US and i'm personally proud of our guys that have honored the Italian Flag paying with their young lives for the Freedom of Iraq.
 
Oh, don't feel bad. We criticize everyone. Especially ourselves. It's part of our girlish charm.
 
I see, if you disagree with the U.S. then you're a traitor, but if you mislead your own people and go to war against their wishes on a false premise then you're a patriot.

I'll take thinking traitors every time please.
 
The Don said:
I see, if you disagree with the U.S. then you're a traitor, but if you mislead your own people and go to war against their wishes on a false premise then you're a patriot.

I'll take thinking traitors every time please.
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You're getting it wrong. The definition of traitor is "someone who disagrees with me". Of course, that makes it relative to the speaker...but that's a trivial objection, and you must be a traitor to worry about it.
 
The Don said:
I see, if you disagree with the U.S. then you're a traitor, but if you mislead your own people and go to war against their wishes on a false premise then you're a patriot.

I'll take thinking traitors every time please.
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I don't belive the majority of the American People were happy to see their sons to live for Europe during the WWII, but despite of this natural feeling (i don't belive there are people who like to make war) the Americans have given back to the Europeans Freedom, Democracy and Welfare.
 
WWII was a "popular war" for the US. Nobody likes their kids getting killed, but the public opinion was massively in favor of the war, that it was just and necessary. We haven't really had the same feeling about any war since.
 
TragicMonkey said:
WWII was a "popular war" for the US. Nobody likes their kids getting killed, but the public opinion was massively in favor of the war, that it was just and necessary. We haven't really had the same feeling about any war since.
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I'm interested in that as The World At War (A UK documentary about WWII) devotes a program to the situation in the US which suggests that in the early years US public opinion was very strongly against any involvement in the war and that even after Pearl Harbour there was not necessarily universal support for involvement in the European theatre.

Was it really a popular war at the time, or is it just in hindsight (when the full horrors were known) that fighting Nazism was popular?
 
And the Europeans were grateful at the time, but that doesn't mean that Europeans should be prepetually grateful and that we must be uncritical of the U.S. no matter how misguided (we think) its actions are.
 
The Don said:
And the Europeans were grateful at the time, but that doesn't mean that Europeans should be prepetually grateful and that we must be uncritical of the U.S. no matter how misguided (we think) its actions are.
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No one should ever be uncritical and give a free pass to any action. Being critical means examination--you may decide for or against after examination, but certainly nobody should decide beforehand. That opens the door to all sorts of nastiness.

People (and countries) who don't want to be criticized are usually doing something they know won't stand up well to examination.
 
TragicMonkey said:
People (and countries) who don't want to be criticized are usually doing something they know won't stand up well to examination.
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I TOTALLY AGREE. France for example!;)
 
And the Europeans were grateful at the time, but that doesn't mean that Europeans should be prepetually grateful and that we must be uncritical of the U.S. no matter how misguided (we think) its actions are.
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That might make sense if it had any truth. The truth is that Europeans have never been grateful. Not in 1945, and not today. They didn't like the US back then, and don't now.

Adolf Hitler said American culture was black and Jew, and you know how they feel about them. And no, it hasn't changed. I've met plenty of Euro tourists.

It must be pretty embarassing to call oneself the pinnacle of all humanity, then to have to be rescued by a bunch of flotsam emigres. Embarassing to say the least. Wounded pride.

People (and countries) who don't want to be criticized are usually doing something they know won't stand up well to examination.
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Yes, who's more secretive, European governments or America?
 
Jay GW said:
That might make sense if it had any truth. The truth is that Europeans have never been grateful. Not in 1945, and not today. They didn't like the US back then, and don't now.
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Overgeneralization. Some European people liked the US, some didn't. Just like some Americans like Europe, and some don't.

Personally, I think it's possible to like people while disapproving of their actions, and that everyone has their good and bad points, both people and nations.

Except, of course, for France.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Overgeneralization. Some European people liked the US, some didn't. Just like some Americans like Europe, and some don't.

Personally, I think it's possible to like people while disapproving of their actions, and that everyone has their good and bad points, both people and nations.

Except, of course, for France.
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The larger majority of the Italian people like Americans and have always expressed their support for the US.
Unfortunately the Italian Left (for its pro-Soviet tradition) is anti American but fortunately it is a minority among the Italians.
I remember the 9/11th when millions of Italians have exposed the Italian and American Flags from their balconies and also the last year, while the Left supporters have exposed the rainbow flag with the written 'PEACE' from the balconies to protest because of the war in Iraq, millions of Italians have exposed the Stars and Stripes.
The Italians will not forget what the Americans have done for us. At least the majority of the Italian people.
 
That's very touching, but that doesn't mean the US should be given a free pass to do what it wants. Sometimes you have to say no even to the ones you love.

Except, of course, for France.
 
The Italians will not forget what the Americans have done for us. At least the majority of the Italian people.
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That's odd, considering that the German people are not as kindly disposed to the United States. And the Japanese definitely aren't.
 
Jay GW said:
That's odd, considering that the German people are not as kindly disposed to the United States. And the Japanese definitely aren't.
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I agree with you, but i must admit i'm a bit sad to see that somebody in the US would prefer to see an Italy led by the Communists. Very sad.
 
Don't listen to the media and some of the "liberals" here. Most Americans appreciate the UK and Italy's strong support of us since 9/11.

As Bush said in his covention speech, we will not forget (as some have).
 
I hadn't realized that support of the president and support of the country and its allies were necessarily the same thing.
 
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