What does this sign mean?

[DickK]

...why, yes! Good example!

That's going "good-to-bad". Any examples of going "bad-to-good"? Perhaps we are more prone to let a symbol stay "bad"?

Not a graphic symbol but here's a verbal one. Nowadays "hip, hip" is the spur for others to shout "hurrah, hurrah hurrah", but may come from some rather nasty mediaeval English Jew baiting, namely "hep, hep", "hep" possibly being the acronym for "Hierusulyma est perdita", the mediaeval Latin for "Jerusalem is lost!". The Straight Dope has some interesting views on its provenance.

 

[CFLarsen]

But when the swastika got co-opted by the nazis it didn't carry all the "baggage" it has now. I couldn't say for certain but I am willing to bet it didn't really have ANY meaning to the average person prior to the rise of the Nazis.

Hmmm....average and average. It was used in various contexts (see Carlsberg), but I think you are right that it wasn't a symbol known and used by all that many.

Well there's a Swastika on the side on one of the elephants at the Carlsberg Brewery..

http://www.mykreeve.net/copenhagen/other_areas/carlsberg_brewery/ (picture of the elephants is at the bottom)

True. I am not aware that anyone has ever complained (in DK) about it, though. You don't complain about Carlsberg, it's against the Religion of Beer.

Not a graphic symbol but here's a verbal one. Nowadays "hip, hip" is the spur for others to shout "hurrah, hurrah hurrah", but may come from some rather nasty mediaeval English Jew baiting, namely "hep, hep", "hep" possibly being the acronym for "Hierusulyma est perdita", the mediaeval Latin for "Jerusalem is lost!". The Straight Dope has some interesting views on its provenance.

Interesting...

 

[Yahweh]

I and, I think, most British people know the symbol as the logo of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND). I never heard of it being used as a general 'peace' symbol before today.

It must be an American phenomena, but until today I've never heard of the symbol as anything but a general peace symbol.

In fact, I've seen people wear the symbol around as fashion, the sister Yahweh's have their own little Peace/CND sign necklaces and stickers.

Interesting...

 

[richardm]

Not a graphic symbol but here's a verbal one. Nowadays "hip, hip" is the spur for others to shout "hurrah, hurrah hurrah", but may come from some rather nasty mediaeval English Jew baiting, namely "hep, hep", "hep" possibly being the acronym for "Hierusulyma est perdita", the mediaeval Latin for "Jerusalem is lost!". The Straight Dope has some interesting views on its provenance.

I'm almost certain that's not right. Anything that's an acronym is very unlikely indeed to be as early as Mediaeval English. While it may have been co-opted in the 19th century as Cecil suggests, it would certainly have existed before that.

"Hip Hip Hooray" is believed by some to be based on a war cry used by ancient Britons, BTW... (By which I mean, as recorded by the Romans)

Edited to add: In fact, I'll even go so far as to say that he is probably just wrong, and it wasn't co-opted in the 19th Century either. Acronyms didn't really get popular until much later when people started to get fully literate. Because if you can't spell, acronyms aren't very helpful. I'd say that with a just a few exceptions (AD BC OK and SPQR spring to mind) there were next to no acronyms until the late 19th Century, and even then they didn't really catch on until the 20th.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Another middle aged Brit here. In my childhood, it was the "Ban the Bomb"sign and later the "CND"(Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament) symbol.

I never heard it referred to as a "peace"symbol.

As for symbol flipping- what about the classic "V", two finger gesture? With palm facing outward from the gesturer, this was the classic Churchillian "Victory"gesture. With palm inward it was the UK equivalent of the American single finger gesture. Americans often got it wrong, to the amusement of the British.

Britain , dominated in rudeness as in all things, by American TV and film, is increasingly using the single finger.

Words- which are symbols- change meaning all the time.

The capital "H" in Britain used to mean "hospital", but increasingly indicates a helipad. (Possibly because hospitals tend to have helipads).


The road sign for a railway crossing still features a stylised steam locomotive, which many younger adults have never seen in real life.. I wonder if and when this will change- and to what?

 

[gnome]

some fundies think it is the invertied Xian cross and broken.

that means it is the sign on the devil etc.

Virgil

I don't think anyone has ever produced an example of it being used that way. The only conclusion I have been able to draw, considering this claim, was that it was made up by someone that knew better, to rally opinion against CND.

 

[Stitch]

Mean -
To be used to convey; denote: “‘The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things’” (Lewis Carroll).
To act as a symbol of; signify or represent: In this poem, the budding flower means youth.
Source: Dictionary.com

We are back to interpretation again here me thinks. The answer will vary depending on who you ask, as we have seen from the responses.

If you asked me the question 10 years ago, I would have said it was the logo for CND. Now, I would say peace. Why? Because over time my experiences have grown and my exposure to things has widened. As a result I have since seen footage of demonstrations in the USA, that pre-date CND that make use of the same symbol.

Would I be surprised to find occurances of it back at 2000 BC in Egyptian times and that it meant something else?? Not really, it is quite a simple design with a degree of pleasing symetry, so why shouldn't it far older than most of us percieve (not saying it is!). Bit like the Swastiker, many people are unaware of it prior to the Natzis in 1930's Germany. It is like so many things, it is the masses that define the day to day meaning of things, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Hand Bent Spoon]

Given the phrasing of the question, the answer is 'yes'. Had the question referred to the original meaning, the answer would have been 'no'.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

...why, yes! Good example!

That's going "good-to-bad". Any examples of going "bad-to-good"? Perhaps we are more prone to let a symbol stay "bad"?

The Christian Cross as Crucifix?

 

[tim]

Sorry, should have been more specific. People don't use the semaphores much anymore. Nor Morse code.
... .... .. _ !

Mr Corey, swearing on this forum is not allowed! And more correctly the last symbol should have been - , not _!
In future, .--. .-.. . .- ... . -.- . . .--. -.-- --- ..- .-. -.-. --- -.. . ... - --- -.-- --- ..- .-. ... . .-.. ..-.!

 

[asthmatic camel]

As for symbol flipping- what about the classic "V", two finger gesture? With palm facing outward from the gesturer, this was the classic Churchillian "Victory"gesture. With palm inward it was the UK equivalent of the American single finger gesture. Americans often got it wrong, to the amusement of the British.

Britain , dominated in rudeness as in all things, by American TV and film, is increasingly using the single finger.

I've read a few ideas about the origin of the two fingered salute. The most likely seem to be either that it was originally used by English archers to taunt the French, or that it was a phallic insult, essentially meaning ◊◊◊◊ You, as the American single finger gesture and continental raised arm and fist gesture seem to be.

Possibly a mixture of all three. Does anyone know the truth ?

 

[tim]

Just using this post to see if my computer works. Sorry!

 

[Soapy Sam]

I've heard the theory about the French cutting off the string finger of Enlish Archers- (Many of them Welsh, in fact). Point is, you draw a bow- and did in the middle ages- with three fingers, not two, so I never have believed that one. (Also, I frankly doubt they would have stopped at cutting off the fingers. )

Edit- Tim- I think your computer is broken.

 

[asthmatic camel]

I've heard the theory about the French cutting off the string finger of Enlish Archers- (Many of them Welsh, in fact). Point is, you draw a bow- and did in the middle ages- with three fingers, not two, so I never have believed that one. (Also, I frankly doubt they would have stopped at cutting off the fingers. )

Edit- Tim- I think your computer is broken.

I'm not too sure about that SS. Sending back injured prisoners who need to be fed but are unable to fight sounds like a reasonable tactic.

 

[gnome]

I'm not too sure about that SS. Sending back injured prisoners who need to be fed but are unable to fight sounds like a reasonable tactic.

Aw, pluck it... here's some more on this from Snopes...

Has the "severing archers' fingers" story appeared anywhere else besides a spurious history of "giving the finger"?

 

[Soapy Sam]

AC- I can buy your theory as a post- Geneva Convention plan, (that's why landmines are designed to maim, not kill)- but in the 13th century prisoners were generally ransomed (if they were worth anything) and slaughtered if not. Chances of death from septicaemia after finger amputation might have rendered the question moot. Just seems to me (as an old archer), that if I wanted to make that particular point, I would lop the three middle fingers, just to be on the safe side, so the gesture would be a three fingered one like the old Scout Salute. I've always felt the spread fingers were a metaphor for spread legs, meaning basically, F*** You!

Could be this is a mediaeval miff. Research project anybody?