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Split Thread What does "MIHOP" mean?

Kent1 said:
Femr has already made it clear in previous quotes that MIHOP=assisted collapse.
Its hard to tell what he believes now, or if he's just playing games. Femr do you still believe what you previously stated?
Please explain. Then we can move on.

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/reproducibility-of-the-official-story-t347-105.html

You'd be out of here, psik. Your argument comes from nothing. Nowt. Zip. Nada. Misunderstanding. Hand waving. Do you REALLY think that explosives were required ALL the way down ? There I must mention hushabooms. I'm in very little doubt about the deliberate and intentional *bring down*, call it MIHOP, but the ridiculous and naieve (sp?) is just that. Ridiculous. Act together, psik. After many long years of, in all honesty, slight ignorance, and it is slight, I managed to get to grips with the, frankly, flimsy perimeter-floor slab-core connection strength conundrum. It's a right pain, but it matches observables and explains a whole heap of the behaviour. If you choose, as I do, to retain a MIHOP perspective, then not realising that you MUST be fully aware of the actual environment within which you are proclaiming knowledge of, you MUST be aware of the realities. Even if it took 20 floors of deliberate destruction to *get it going*, ......... once started, it was going to ground. End of story. Vertically, and semi-symmetrical.

The QUESTION is that of initiation. Scale of initiation. Condition of initiation.

Have been short on time recently, but it's time. Jeez.



Another quote when asked:
http://the911forum.freeforums.org/post9754.html#p9754

Pavlovian Dogcatcher wrote:
do you share my opinion that the impact damage and fires alone story is physically impossible, or not?

femr2 wrote:

Have I not made my opinion clear enough ? MIHOP.
However, IF the fires had burned for a couple of days, or IF there was irreversable CC creep, then it is logical to conclude that natural failure is physically possible.
That's not what I think happened, as there are plenty of other anomylous events to consider, but as the question is loaded, no, it's not physically impossible.

Pavlovian Dogcatcher wrote:
That said, a simple and direct "not" would've avoided all confusion.
Click to expand...

Femr2 stated:
Oh, btw, ever seen my viewpoint on the definition of the extents of MIHOP ? I'll give you a clue...it allows for simply knowing enough about the buildings to KNOW that destruction to ground will ensue following impact. ie On Purpose, not just an unforseen consequence.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212866&page=2


Has anyone else used the term so loosely? Why now at JREF did the meaning change? Why not be honest? It would save you lot of time. This thread wouldn't exist if you were more upfront and honest with everyone here.
Learn something rather than trying to one up everyone.
 
femr2 said:
I imagine you are making some kind of point, however, deliberately misinterpreting quotes is more than underhand.

Tsk.
Click to expand...
The point, I think, is that your increasingly tortuous defense of using words without regard for what they mean to your audience has leaped across the boundary that divides sniggering from laughing dogs.

Near the beginning of this thread, it was just barely possible to blame your misleading usage of MIHOP on the infelicity of your writing, as exemplified by the posts I lampooned. After reading the last several pages, however, I'm beginning to think you made it happen on purpose.
 
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This thread is, in a word, ridiculous.

It is also humorous, and, at the same time, disheartening. Here we have Rizla2012 Femr2 (F2 for short) on a CONSPIRACY THEORY forum..in THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY SUBFORUM...

Attempting his best (which is not good) to convince logical, educated persons that MIHOP..when being discussed in a 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY subforum....means something other than "The USG made it happen...ON PURPOSE".

Come on F2...knock off the charade kiddo...you are talking about 9/11...in the forum dedicated to 9/11 conspiracies..the who and what are already implied by the nature of the conversation...otherwise...this wouldn't be a CONSPIRACY THEORY ..would it?

This discussion and tap dance is on par with is other *work*..and perhaps even more absurd than the "Into" versus "Onto" argument.

Pathetic.
 
Kent1 said:
Femr2 stated:
Oh, btw, ever seen my viewpoint on the definition of the extents of MIHOP ? I'll give you a clue...it allows for simply knowing enough about the buildings to KNOW that destruction to ground will ensue following impact. ie On Purpose, not just an unforseen consequence.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212866&page=2
Click to expand...

yet he also said


Originally Posted by femr2
However, IF the fires had burned for a couple of days, or IF there was irreversable CC creep, then it is logical to conclude that natural failure is physically possible.

That's not what I think happened, as there are plenty of other anomylous events to consider, but as the question is loaded, no, it's not physically impossible.

Bolding mine
Hmmmm.....
 
America used to have a better class of enemies. They used to have the balls to admit they hated their country. Now they can't even do that.
 
femr2 said:
That is the topic of this thread.

"What does MIHOP mean"

If that's not what you wish to discuss, I suggest doing it somewhere else.

I have already shown you that many different MIHOPs exist, including many without a USG-MIHOP element.

Whether you think it is possible for a specific type of MIHOP to be accomplished without you personally believing a USG-MIHOP influence is not the topic of this thread. That is your own personal applied implication.

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. does not denote the "who", "what" or "how".
Click to expand...

Ok femr2.

Let's put your money where your mouth is. Aside from you, please show us examples of when people used the term MIHOP to mean any 9/11 event that happened where the USG was NOT involved in helping said event move to completion.

There is a big difference what an acronym STANDS FOR and what it's IMPLIED MEANING is.

The example I gave you is BRB. It STANDS FOR "Be Right Back". There is no "who" stated in that acronym is there? Yet it's understood IMPLIED MEANING is that the person who typed it is going away and will come back at a later time.

Your problem is that 99.9% of the people who use the term MIHOP understand it to mean the the USG was involved in some way. You have a different meaning for it which is non-standard.

By the way, my post was on topic as we ARE discussing what it means, not what it stands for. As I showed you above, there is a difference. It we were strictly discussing what it stands for, you would be correct. Made It Happen On Purpose. But, that is NOT what is being discussed.
 
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Gamolon said:
Ok femr2.

Let's put your money where your mouth is. Aside from you, please show us examples of when people used the term MIHOP to mean any 9/11 event that happened where the USG was NOT involved in helping said event move to completion.

There is a big difference what an acronym STANDS FOR and what it's IMPLIED MEANING is.

The example I gave you is BRB. It STANDS FOR "Be Right Back". There is no "who" stated in that acronym is there? Yet it's understood IMPLIED MEANING is that the person who typed it is going away and will come back at a later time.

Your problem is that 99.9% of the people who use the term MIHOP understand it to mean the the USG was involved in some way. You have a different meaning for it which is non-standard.

By the way, my post was on topic as we ARE discussing what it means, not what it stands for. As I showed you above, there is a difference. It we were strictly discussing what it stands for, you would be correct. Made It Happen On Purpose. But, that is NOT what is being discussed.
Click to expand...

You'll have to wait a while for a response, I'm afraid.
 
Some posts moved to AAH.

Keep on-topic and address the argument, not the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
As a reminder in case you have not read this thread in full...

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. stands for simply Made It Happen On Purpose.

Many differently scoped M.I.H.O.P.s have been discussed over the years, including...

  • Cheney-Bush MIHOP
  • Peak Oil MIHOP
  • Mossad MIHOP
  • Zionist MIHOP
  • Jewish MIHOP
  • New World Order MIHOP
  • Rogue Network MIHOP

There is also more recent usage of the acronym relating to the BP oil spill, call it BP-MIHOP.

Note the repeated usage of a "who" prefix to the acronym.

There is nothing about the acronym MIHOP which defines the "who", "what" or "how".

There are many who assume a USG prefixed usage, USG-MIHOP, however the acronym does not have a specific meaning other than the literal meaning of the words...

(somebody) made it (whatever it is) happen on purpose (by any means).

USG-MIHOP is not the only and singular usage or meaning.

As discussed a few years ago on an external site...

There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but distorted straw-man arguments with misleading and inaccurate language and labels are not real disagreement.

The misleading and false MIHOP/LIHOP dichotomy is effectively used in straw-man debates in which 9/11 activists are attacked with ridiculously misleading and inaccurate labels.

Instead, accurate language should be used to critique and advance understanding of the 9/11 attacks. If misinformation is defined as “misleading information", then the MIHOP and LIHOP labels closely follow this definition, but if they are used with deliberate intent to confuse and mislead, they clearly function as disinformation.

This is because they can mean almost anything depending on what the user wants them to mean when left unqualified, and they can just as easily be misunderstood by the intended audience when this happens.

Without clarification, the terms are like empty, unfilled glasses; containers without meaningful content.

When these labels are followed by specific explanations and analysis they are somewhat more useful, but without clarification they are dangerously open-ended:

  • Who made it happen?
  • What happened?
  • How did it happen?
  • Why did it happen?
  • Why is the official story wrong?
  • Which parts of the official story are wrong?
  • What parts are true?
  • And most importantly, how can you prove it?

These are all questions that MIHOP and LIHOP do not answer when they are not followed with explanation or precise definition; on their own these terms are virtually meaningless.


There is nothing about the acronym M.I.H.O.P. which defines the "who", "what" or "how".
 
femr2 said:
As a reminder in case you have not read this thread in full...

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. stands for simply Made It Happen On Purpose.

Many differently scoped M.I.H.O.P.s have been discussed over the years, including...

  • Cheney-Bush MIHOP
  • Peak Oil MIHOP
  • Mossad MIHOP
  • Zionist MIHOP
  • Jewish MIHOP
  • New World Order MIHOP
  • Rogue Network MIHOP
Click to expand...

WHEN DISCUSSING 9/11..ON A FORUM DEVOTED TO 9/11 CONSPIRACIES...It is all but painfuly obvious to all but the willfully dishonest what is meant by MIHOP kiddo. That is, Someone, other than the official documented accounts..MIHOP...

So, F2, when you say "I am MIHOP" on a 9/11 CT forum....you are expilicity stating that someone/something other than that which has been officially reported MIHOP..thus, implicating the official account..and thus the US goverment....

duuuuuur
 
Femr2, you never answered; is your usage of the term "MIHOP" a standard one? Note that I am not asking whether it is a "minority" usage or any suchlike. White people are a minority in Atlanta, yet they're still be among the standard races I might find if I went to the Varsity.

A simple "yes", "no", or "I don't know".
 
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000063 said:
is your usage of the term "MIHOP" a standard one?
Click to expand...
Yes. All prior usage has been of the form (any who) made it (whatever it is) happen on purpose (by any means)

It has generally been destruction to ground of WTC 1 & 2, but not exclusively.

However, my usage is not the topic of this thread.

I have already highlighted the subjective nature of the acronym, and again...
femr2 said:
As a reminder in case you have not read this thread in full...

The acronym M.I.H.O.P. stands for simply Made It Happen On Purpose.

Many differently scoped M.I.H.O.P.s have been discussed over the years, including...

  • Cheney-Bush MIHOP
  • Peak Oil MIHOP
  • Mossad MIHOP
  • Zionist MIHOP
  • Jewish MIHOP
  • New World Order MIHOP
  • Rogue Network MIHOP

There is also more recent usage of the acronym relating to the BP oil spill, call it BP-MIHOP.

Note the repeated usage of a "who" prefix to the acronym.

There is nothing about the acronym MIHOP which defines the "who", "what" or "how".

There are many who assume a USG prefixed usage, USG-MIHOP, however the acronym does not have a specific meaning other than the literal meaning of the words...

(somebody) made it (whatever it is) happen on purpose (by any means).

USG-MIHOP is not the only and singular usage or meaning.

As discussed a few years ago on an external site...

There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but distorted straw-man arguments with misleading and inaccurate language and labels are not real disagreement.

The misleading and false MIHOP/LIHOP dichotomy is effectively used in straw-man debates in which 9/11 activists are attacked with ridiculously misleading and inaccurate labels.

Instead, accurate language should be used to critique and advance understanding of the 9/11 attacks. If misinformation is defined as “misleading information", then the MIHOP and LIHOP labels closely follow this definition, but if they are used with deliberate intent to confuse and mislead, they clearly function as disinformation.

This is because they can mean almost anything depending on what the user wants them to mean when left unqualified, and they can just as easily be misunderstood by the intended audience when this happens.

Without clarification, the terms are like empty, unfilled glasses; containers without meaningful content.

When these labels are followed by specific explanations and analysis they are somewhat more useful, but without clarification they are dangerously open-ended:

  • Who made it happen?
  • What happened?
  • How did it happen?
  • Why did it happen?
  • Why is the official story wrong?
  • Which parts of the official story are wrong?
  • What parts are true?
  • And most importantly, how can you prove it?

These are all questions that MIHOP and LIHOP do not answer when they are not followed with explanation or precise definition; on their own these terms are virtually meaningless.


There is nothing about the acronym M.I.H.O.P. which defines the "who", "what" or "how".
Click to expand...
 
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Note the shiny red mod box not far above this shiny red mod box. It wasn't a joke.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
Carll68 said:
WHEN DISCUSSING 9/11..ON A FORUM DEVOTED TO 9/11 CONSPIRACIES...It is all but painfuly obvious to all but the willfully dishonest what is meant by MIHOP kiddo. That is, Someone, other than the official documented accounts..MIHOP...
So, F2, when you say "I am MIHOP" on a 9/11 CT forum....you are expilicity stating that someone/something other than that which has been officially reported MIHOP..thus, implicating the official account..and thus the US goverment....
duuuuuur
Click to expand...

femr2 said:
Made. It. Happen. On. Purpose. Regardless of "who", "what" and "how".

My ID is femr2, not "kiddo".

Again, my ID is femr2, not "F2".

Do not misstate my ID.

How very mature.
Click to expand...

You responded to the bolded parts but forgot to answer the hilited parts.
 
BasqueArch said:
You responded to the bolded parts but forgot to answer the hilited parts.
Click to expand...
Incorrect.

Again, previous usage has been in the literal sense... Made. It. Happen. On. Purpose. Regardless of "who", "what" and "how".

Note also that anyone using the acronym M.I.H.O.P. with an assumed USG prefix, USG-MIHOP, rather than any of the highlighted alternatives listed below, again, is still using the acronym with undefined "what" and "how" elements.

Again...

  • Cheney-Bush MIHOP
  • Peak Oil MIHOP
  • Mossad MIHOP
  • Zionist MIHOP
  • Jewish MIHOP
  • New World Order MIHOP
  • Rogue Network MIHOP
  • BP MIHOP
  • Space Aliens MIHOP
...etc...
 
femr2 said:
Incorrect.

Again, previous usage has been in the literal sense... Made. It. Happen. On. Purpose. Regardless of "who", "what" and "how".

Note also that anyone using the acronym M.I.H.O.P. with an assumed USG prefix, USG-MIHOP, rather than any of the highlighted alternatives listed below, again, is still using the acronym with undefined "what" and "how" elements.

Again...

  • Cheney-Bush MIHOP
  • Peak Oil MIHOP
  • Mossad MIHOP
  • Zionist MIHOP
  • Jewish MIHOP
  • New World Order MIHOP
  • Rogue Network MIHOP
  • BP MIHOP
  • Space Aliens MIHOP
...etc...
Click to expand...
Everyone can see you didn't answer the question.
If :
  • Cheney-Bush MIHOP
  • Peak Oil MIHOP
  • Mossad MIHOP
  • Zionist MIHOP
  • Jewish MIHOP
  • New World Order MIHOP
  • Rogue Network MIHOP
  • BP MIHOP
  • Space Aliens MIHOP
then the USG lied in their official documented account that Al Qaeda did it and the USG + any of the above MIHOP. If you believe Any Other than Al Qaeda MIHOP then the USG MIHOP. QED.
 
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