What does it mean?

scribble

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I'm probably not the only person who doesn't understand - or pretend to understand - the implication's of Saddam's capture. I'm one of those clueless folks who thought we were looking for some guy named Osama. What happned?

Seriously - I've got no idea what it means that "We got him." What DOES it mean?

Is there an end in sight to The War On Terror? Is there even a conceivable end?
 
Well, in my opinion it means that one particular dictator will get what's coming to him but not much beyond that. I don't think it will have much of an effect on the course of the fighting in Iraq. The Iraqis that are on our side will like us that much more, the ones that do not like us will like us even less, in the end it's a wash.

As for an end to the "War on Terror" I don't see that ending, ever. It's like the "War on Poverty" or the "War on Drugs", It's basically trying to stamp out a meme and that is a very difficult thing to do. There will always be someone with a cause who sees blowing up a bus or ramming an airplane into a building as a means to advance that cause. You could no more eliminate terrorism than you could eliminate all crime, because there will always be someone with an incentive to do it
 
I'm with you, Scribble, in the confusion.

I don't understand why my tax dollars had to be put towards making Iraqis happy. I don't understand why Hussein became such an all-fired important figure on the list of International A**holes. I don't see how his downfall and capture add anything to US security, when it can be argued that our war on Iraq has put US security at greater risk.

Hurray for Joe Iraqiman. *does a half-hearted dance devoid of glee*
 
scribble said:
I'm probably not the only person who doesn't understand - or pretend to understand - the implication's of Saddam's capture. I'm one of those clueless folks who thought we were looking for some guy named Osama. What happned?

Seriously - I've got no idea what it means that "We got him." What DOES it mean?

Is there an end in sight to The War On Terror? Is there even a conceivable end?

It means we got him, and Osama is next. Much more difficult task, but they'll keep at it. No one said the War on Terror was going to be short-lived, it's an on-going battle. I suppose your solution was to do nothing?
 
No Answers said:
I'm with you, Scribble, in the confusion.

I don't understand why my tax dollars had to be put towards making Iraqis happy. I don't understand why Hussein became such an all-fired important figure on the list of International A**holes. I don't see how his downfall and capture add anything to US security, when it can be argued that our war on Iraq has put US security at greater risk.

Hurray for Joe Iraqiman. *does a half-hearted dance devoid of glee*

Ha Ha. I'm forwarding this to John Ashcroft so you can get what is coming to you. Can you even speak Cuban?

I guess people like you love Saddam and hate America so much that you would rather have your beloved Saddam torturing babies and little puppies with a wood burner than facing justice and sitting in a jail cell. I guess you want more terrorist attacks. I can't believe you lack the capacity to see that killing arabs and occupying their land is the best way to end terrorism and ensure freedom. I mean, look at Israel!! They do that and they hardly even have gun laws anymore!! Total freedom!!

I bet you liked Idi Amin as well, and wished he was still in power so you could help him eat people.

PC'libs like you make all us true Americans sick. You better shut up and praise those people that ensure your freedom by bombing the bejesus out of other countries to make them free too. Are you some kind of communist? Is that what "No Answers" means? Stalin didn't have any answers when God put his commie athiest butt into hell soon to be joined by other crazed lefties like Mo Udall.

Eh "Comrade?"


(Special note for some of our slower friends on both political fringes - before you let loose a hearty "right on" or an indignant "you meanie" be advised that the above is satire for my own theraputic purposes. I do feel much better now. Thanks.)
 
You might be happier not knowing. To master the understanding, you will first need to misunderstand and then see how wrong you were. It's a long and painful process, and many people get caught in the misunderstanding phase and never graduate to the level needed to command the issues, let alone be able to operate and make good decisions about them.


If you don't "get it", I recommend you stick to your current hobby of coding and making small crafts out of yarn and popsicle sticks.
 
scribble said:
I'm probably not the only person who doesn't understand - or pretend to understand - the implication's of Saddam's capture.

Ask the leader of Libya what Saddam's capture means to him.

Saddam's capture means different things to different people.
To some Iraqis, his capture, trial, and subsequent execution will be a form of closure.
To other leaders of countries that openly support terrorism, Saddam is a warning. Omar for one obviously doesn't want to be the next guy getting a licecheck (or worse, cavity search).

Seriously, I could talk all night about what Saddam's capture means to different groups. Can you not even begin to fathom these things?
 
It means the focus can be moved once again. The war is a success, didn't you hear?

I agree with Corplinx, that this means different things to different groups. But ultimately, it makes the west feel a sense of justice in the world, as misplaced as it is. It's like one bully punches you, so you punch somebody else you don't like, and feel better about it.

The real 'War on Terror' (trademark) will not be fought by invading countries. It will be won with intelligence, with political diplomacy and with education. Call the invasion of Iraq whatever you like - one thing it hasn't had much of an effect on is the fundamental Islamic 'anti-progress' movement that Al-Quaida and the JI place their faith in. It might affect the Palestinian's, but then in the eyes of most 'coalition states' one terrorist is the same as the next. The biggest blow to date against these movements has been made by the Indonesian government's reforms on education systems, not by deposing a dictator because of an old grudge.

I guess it doesn't really matter that Saddam detested Bin Laden's fundamentalism, who in turn hated Saddam's progressive ways. It's easier to see the world in black and white, and lump all of the 'Middle East' in one basket and then burn it.

I'm angry not necessarily because of the war. I don't like Saddam. Then again, I don't like Mugabe - is he next? If the coalition had have simply stated 'we don't like having a potential enemy who might one day work against us', or 'we don't like leaders who kill and murder the people they should be protecting', and then attacked, I might feel better. But by tying it in with the 'War on Terror', and having people swallow that, makes me fear that resources are not being allocated where they should be.

But then, if you feel emotionally more secure with the taste of revenge in your mouth, then who am I to try to argue this using intellect?

Athon
 
Re: Re: What does it mean?

BTox said:


It means we got him, and Osama is next. Much more difficult task, but they'll keep at it. No one said the War on Terror was going to be short-lived, it's an on-going battle. I suppose your solution was to do nothing?
'We got him' means 'we got him'...now that we've got that out of the way what does it mean in context of the occupation of Iraq?

I would say it means nothing at all, and catching Osama bin Laden will mean little more than that. Well, except for a little PR for the masses who think that things like this matter.
 
In the context of the pacification of Iraq, then Saddam's capture means a hell of a lot.

In the context of The War Against Terror (TWAT), its about as relevant as the colour of my underpants. Seeing as how Iraq had nothing to do with Al-Qeada and 9/11 in the first place.
 
Re: Re: Re: What does it mean?

Zero said:
I would say it means nothing at all, and catching Osama bin Laden will mean little more than that. Well, except for a little PR for the masses who think that things like this matter.

Of course you would say that. Which has no bearing on reality. Capturing Saddam was a huge coup and will go along way in helping wrap up the aftermath of the war in Iraq. Plus actually bringing a defiant dictator to justice sends a message around the world. Similarly, capturing or killing Osama would be an equally big success - would not bring an end to Al Quaeda but certainly be a major blow. We now return to zero's fantasy island view..
 
The only thing I'm getting out of all the violent disagreement here is that I'm not the only one who's confused. You can't all be right.
 
scribble said:
You can't all be right.


The opposition lives by the belief that you are wrong about this. They believe we are all equals with similar values but different methods.

I happen to agree with your statement, and it's a good sign that you are on the right track to understanding these matters very well indeed, not just Iraq and our security, but all of life's other issues as well.
 
What does Saddam's capture mean for Iraqis? A lot.
What does it mean for the War on Terror?? About as much as arresting a drug dealer means for the War on Drugs.

Was I for the war? Well, after weighing the pros and cons, I realised that I did not care which way it went. (I might have given the wrong impression by saying that... What I meant was, I would have been just as content had the war started as if it had not.)

However, I'd like to see if the US handles the Iraqi government right after this...


I wonder what they will be teaching (And saying) about americans in Iraqi schools in 40 years...
 
sorgoth said:

What does it mean for the War on Terror?? About as much as arresting a drug dealer means for the War on Drugs.


Do you discount Libya's new agreements with us? I think it's profound.

For all the talk of WMDs or no, a scientist was found with a gas centriguge buried in his backyard. It's better that we invaded before they ever had a chance to use it.
 
What does it mean for the War on Terror?? About as much as arresting a drug dealer means for the War on Drugs.
Maybe actually more like a drug kingpin, but yeah, about that.


For all the talk of WMDs or no, a scientist was found with a gas centriguge buried in his backyard. It's better that we invaded before they ever had a chance to use it.
OMG! I had better report my university, because they have gas centrifuges there too! Holy crap, that was close! Imagine, a scientist with actual scientific equipment in his lab!

I was being sarcastic if you were.
 
Dorian Gray said:
OMG! I had better report my university, because they have gas centrifuges there too!


They most certainly do not. And there is no innocent excuse for Iraq to bury one in someone's yard.
 
Re: Re: Re: What does it mean?

Zero said:
'We got him' means 'we got him'...now that we've got that out of the way what does it mean in context of the occupation of Iraq?

I would say it means nothing at all, and catching Osama bin Laden will mean little more than that. Well, except for a little PR for the masses who think that things like this matter.

you would say? ...and what would be your qualifications? Or is it just that you have a lame, unsupported opinion, and you wish to inflict it upon the world?

Why don't we go to Hiwa Osman's informed opinion from last sunday's Washington Post:
Some foreign observers and journalists have expressed doubts about the importance of Hussein's capture, and whether it will weaken the violent Iraqi campaign against U.S. forces and all other supporters of a new Iraq. Such doubts are misplaced. Saddam's role in the "resistance" was both symbolic and practical. His arrest should result in the collapse of the insurgency, even if the impact is not felt immediately. The insurgents may not lay down their weapons. When the head of a snake is cut off, the body twitches for some time. With Saddam sitting in jail -- and soon in a courtroom -- his loyalists will eventually get the message that the head is gone.

The full article

Hiwa Osman, an Iraqi Kurd working for the London-based Institute for War and Peace Reporting, is training journalists in Baghdad.

I'm a suspicious skeptic....anyone who takes an obviously positive circumstance (Saddam's capture) and attempts to spin it negative is intellectually dishonest.

-z
 

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