What does "born again" mean?

[Tricky]

I was looking at the topic about the born again Christian causing problems at the workplace, and I wondered again what exactly "born again" means. Most born again Christians were already Christians, but it seems they've had some kind of epiphany, usually at the urging of a minister or evangelist.

I have a bible-thumping neice who excitedly informed me one day that she had become a "True Christian".
"But you were already a Christian," I said.
"Yes, but not a true Christian!" she revealed.
"What makes one a True Christian?" I asked.
"You accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," she said.
"But you already accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior," I reminded her.
"But now he is in my heart," I was informed.
"He wasn't before now?"
"Yes, but not like this."

After a bit of this, I came to the conclusion that the only difference between a "true" or "born again" Christian and the Christian they were before being born again, is that they talk about it more.

 

[ImpyTimpy]

Don't go there

Don't even begin to try and understand the complex mysteries of christian faith. It doesn't make any sense because it's not supposed to. Take the whole "God, Father, Holy Spirit/Ghost" thing. They're supposedly one person, yet they're also three seperate beings or something (I'm very confused on this). Ask a Christian about it and they'll tell you it's complicated, or it just is (now you know why). See, it doesn't have to make sense, because it's to do with God. Same with born again Christians, they just are what they are because that's what they are. It doesn't have to make sense because it's to do with God.

God is mysterious... 'Nuff said.

 

[triadboy]

Re: Don't go there

Take the whole "God, Father, Holy Spirit/Ghost" thing. They're supposedly one person, yet they're also three seperate beings or something (I'm very confused on this).

One Christian explained it to me this way:

"It's like ice. Ice can be ice, water, or steam. See? They are all the same thing, but different manisfestations of that thing."

So when Jesus (the water boy) is praying to his Father (the Iceman), the (steamy) Holy Ghost is gettin' jiggy widdit.

 

[Tormac]

Coming from a family of bible believing evangelical Christians, I think I can give you some insight Tricky.

Most Christians who identify them selves as "born again" follow the evangelical or charismatic movements of Protestantism. These movements reject the ritual and organized hierarchy of the older more established Christian churches in favor of a personalized relationship with Jesus (i.e. direct communication with the god head by the individual instead of communicating with the god head through organized ritual or a church hierarchy). I suppose you could liken it to people who think that Luther did not go nearly far enough, and so they are continuing in the tradition.

"Born again" Christians place more value on personal faith and personal revelation than following a church approved catechism. They also tend to place a higher value on individuals witnessing and spreading the "good news" than allowing a church organization or out reach ministry do the witnessing for the community. This is the reason they tend take the bible as the literal word of God. By stepping away from an organized church hierarchy and dogma they also step away from the historical scholarly interpretation in favor of individuals sitting down and reading things for themselves. After rejecting traditional scholarship the “born again” Christian is faced with either coming up with a new personal catechism, or just saying nope its the literal word of God, no interpretation needed.

As you have noted "born again" Christians do tend to be more excited and vocal in their beliefs. They are usually far more energized and tend to be more “mystical” in their religious views rather than scholarly and contemplative

 

[Tricky]

Thanks, Tormac. That actually makes a lot of sense, especially the bit about rejecting scholarly interpretations. I know that most of the "born agains" I've had any discussion with seem to know less about the bible than me. Of course, if I try to get them to interpret a passage for me, I usually get "The Devil can quote scripture..." nonsense, indicating that they don't know what it really means, but they are sure I am wrong.

They all get very flustered when trying to rationalize the "don't pray in public" command directly from the mouth of Jesus in Matthew 6.

 

[Tormac]

Yes that is one of the differences that I think you will find between the "born again" Christian and a run of the mill Catholic or Lutheran.

The "born again" Christian does not have a strong scholarly tradition, and often rejects the need for scholarship in general. The mystical aspects of Christianity are more important to them. I think you will find that they will be strong believers in the power of prayer, faith, and the validity of personal revelation, but rather suspicious of scholastic interpretations of the bible. Often this acceptance of the powers of personal faith and revelation is what gives the movement its strength, but is also what makes dealing with one on a one on one basis frustrating. They will be convinced that their worldview is correct based not or logic or any objective evidence, but through the strength of their faith. Usually a "born again" Christian will attack the source of any objective evidence that disagrees with their worldview. They seriously believe that there is a conspiracy of secular humanists driving society, and in their heart secular humanists are all hedonists one-step away from Aleister Crowley and outright Satanism.

I'm surprised that the ones that you flummoxed with Matthew 6 did not just claim that you were taking it out of context, or did not have the faith required to understand the true meaning of the revelation.

If you really want to flummox one don't bother with looking at contradictions in the literal interpretation of the bible. Instead reject the power of faith or prayer to make an objective change in reality. But be forewarned if you do this you may be getting into territory that they deem is worth fighting over.

The real powerful individuals in the "born again" movement are the few "true believers" who have both the inner conviction of personal revelation combined with a fair amount of scholarship. Of course externally it is sometime hard to differentiate these "true Christians" from TV evangelist hucksters. The only difference that I've noticed is the hucksters will denounce you then leave you alone if you make it clear you are not going to donate money for a prayer clothe. The "true believer" however is actually not motivated by your donation potential, but really is concerned about your position with the Lord, and may hang on to you with the tenacity of a Jehovah’s Witness, only they are usually not as polite as Jehovah’s Witnesses are.

 

[INRM]

Re: Don't go there

Don't even begin to try and understand the complex mysteries of christian faith. It doesn't make any sense because it's not supposed to. Take the whole "God, Father, Holy Spirit/Ghost" thing. They're supposedly one person, yet they're also three seperate beings or something (I'm very confused on this). Ask a Christian about it and they'll tell you it's complicated, or it just is (now you know why). See, it doesn't have to make sense, because it's to do with God. Same with born again Christians, they just are what they are because that's what they are. It doesn't have to make sense because it's to do with God.

God is mysterious... 'Nuff said.

Don't be silly, God just has a multiple-personality disorder.

-INRM... No, I'm not being serious. It is just a joke.

 

[evildave]

All the different opinions about Jesus and Sky Daddy are just like the 1941 version of Superman versus the later versions of Superman. Back in WWII, Superman killed a lot of people because they were Japanese.

Comic book heroes and their priorities are a useful model of where religious interpretations come from.

At one point, the Christians thought that Christ would return and literally raise them from their grave. They had their bodies preserved with this in mind.

Now we have similarly silly notions about god "beaming up" his chosen.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Doesn't being born again have something to do with bathing in blood so you don't stink of sin?

That sounds sorta creepy to me. Kind of in a Carrie (the Stephen King movie) meets a skunk way.