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What do we gain by having a vote?

coberst

Critical Thinker
C
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
415
What do we gain by having a vote?

It seems to me that what we gain depends upon what we invest. If the vote is not accompanied by an investment of time and intellect directed at comprehending our self and our world then the vote becomes somewhat like our vote as to what is the best football team, ours or theirs.

Because our citizens invest little of themselves into our democracy it is a shallow popularity poll. Those who run the country give us these political teams that we can choose one or the other to be ‘our team’ and we can battle ‘their team’ and shout and laugh and rage at one another all to no avail because those who run the show use all this just to keep us happy with ‘bread and circus’.

I think that our (US) democracy is a shallow popularity poll. What do you think?
 
What MdC said.

Plus, what you have in the US isn't a democracy, so what you get for your vote is (hopefully) the lesser of two evils. Sadly it didn't work that way the last two times.
 
I think you need to move to Iran, Syria, Egypt, North Korea, Cuba or a variety of other countries. When you arrive, you should go to the nearest public square and begin loudly announcing that you are not happy with public policy and wish to change the government. Just wait for a few hours - the answer to your question will arrive soon enough.
 
Cylinder said:
I think you need to move to Iran, Syria, Egypt, North Korea, Cuba or a variety of other countries. When you arrive, you should go to the nearest public square and begin loudly announcing that you are not happy with public policy and wish to change the government. Just wait for a few hours - the answer to your question will arrive soon enough.
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Right. No constructive criticism of the current system as long as any conceivably worse one exists.

Silly coberst.
 
The rationale for the voting of leaders is not to get the best people into power,

Instead

The rationale for the voting of leaders is to make sure that no one stays in power indefinitely.
 
JamesDillon said:
Originally Posted by Cylinder
I think you need to move to Iran, Syria, Egypt, North Korea, Cuba or a variety of other countries. When you arrive, you should go to the nearest public square and begin loudly announcing that you are not happy with public policy and wish to change the government. Just wait for a few hours - the answer to your question will arrive soon enough.
Click to expand...

Right. No constructive criticism of the current system as long as any conceivably worse one exists.
Click to expand...

The OP didn't ask for constructive criticism- it asked what we got. I think Cylinder provided an answer- what we get is better they got in Iran, Syria, Egypt, etc.
 
Do you think things would be better if the citizens invested more effort toward developing a more sophisticated intellect?
 
The right to vote is the right to complain. So you get to complain (not that this accomplishes anything). In a dictature, you can't.
 
coberst said:
Do you think things would be better if the citizens invested more effort toward developing a more sophisticated intellect?
Click to expand...
Definitely! All that time spent voting cuts into time spent reading Atlantic Monthly.
 
coberst said:
Do you think things would be better if the citizens invested more effort toward developing a more sophisticated intellect?
Click to expand...

Sophisticated intellect by itself would not be very useful. The smartest person in the world will still make stupid decisions if she doesn't have good data available (and the time/inclination to seek it out).

I'd rather that citizens invested more effort towards becoming and remaining well-informed.
 
coberst said:
I think that our (US) democracy is a shallow popularity poll. What do you think?
Click to expand...

I think you need to suggest a better system. I recommend a constitutional republic on the federal side and a straight one-man-one-vote representative democracy on the state side. Sound familure?
 
A shallow popularity poll, if nothing else, prevents government from getting too opposed to people's interests. It's not much, but as has been pointed out already, it's better than nothing.

A more interested populace would be great, of course. There might be ways to change this by changing the electoral proccess, such as proportional representation or more direct democracy, but the big thing would be to figure out some way to get people interested.
 
UserGoogol said:
... but the big thing would be to figure out some way to get people interested.
Click to expand...

Maybe that's more an effect of the process, not a cause.

Fact is, all political partisanship aside, we do so damn very well. It's no wonder that many just don't give a damn which idiot gets in next. Yea, they might, when a nuke explodes in the city next to theirs (or whatever tiny issue trips their particular trigger) but failing that they have little reason to care. They're very trusting that the system will take care of itself...and them.

I think they are wrong but...luckily, most of those that think that way wouldn't vote the way I want them to so...I say good on 'em.
 
coberst said:
What do we gain by having a vote?

It seems to me that what we gain depends upon what we invest. If the vote is not accompanied by an investment of time and intellect directed at comprehending our self and our world then the vote becomes somewhat like our vote as to what is the best football team, ours or theirs.

Because our citizens invest little of themselves into our democracy it is a shallow popularity poll. Those who run the country give us these political teams that we can choose one or the other to be ‘our team’ and we can battle ‘their team’ and shout and laugh and rage at one another all to no avail because those who run the show use all this just to keep us happy with ‘bread and circus’.

I think that our (US) democracy is a shallow popularity poll. What do you think?
Click to expand...

I think the purpose of giving folks the vote may be to make them more easily governable. I've read that studies have demonstrated that when folks' have a vote, even when they're told that their candidate lost, they are more likely to accept the legitimacy of those in power. At least that's the opinion of political scientists such as Professor Benjamin Ginsberg of Johns Hopkins' Poli Sci Dept.
 
drkitten said:
Sophisticated intellect by itself would not be very useful. The smartest person in the world will still make stupid decisions if she doesn't have good data available (and the time/inclination to seek it out).

I'd rather that citizens invested more effort towards becoming and remaining well-informed.
Click to expand...

I agree, we have a bevy of fairly intellectual people here who still support the Bush administration and their policies. Well-informed AND compassionate would be nice. :)
 
drkitten said:
Sophisticated intellect by itself would not be very useful. The smartest person in the world will still make stupid decisions if she doesn't have good data available (and the time/inclination to seek it out).

I'd rather that citizens invested more effort towards becoming and remaining well-informed.
Click to expand...

Information is in the form of fragments and must be gathered together into a coherent package before it can prove useful in comprehending what the world is about. Only a sophisticated intellect can provide the means for such a task.
 
Elind said:
You seem to suggest some other democracy works better. Care to enlighten us with something worth debating? Iran's perhaps?
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I think that something worth debating is this question that everyone might ask her or him self "How can I become a more sophisticated thinker and thus a better citizen."

Throw that question into the pot and see what sort of stew you can cook up.
 
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