What do Mormons Believe?

[DOC]

If your god can't get his will accomplished in any better way than by primitive, barbaric rapine and murder, then what makes him any different from or holier than us? And if he's no different, why worship him?

Man's sin is responsible for his sufferings and the sufferings of others. The bible says "the wages of {man's} sin is death".

Anyone who rapes and murders (and that includes Moses) is going to pay a terrible price for their sin. But God gives man the free will to rape and murder. If humanity didn't have the free will to rape and murder then they would not possess the gift of free will and would just be puppets.

 

[Tanstaafl]

There are multiple places in the old testament where god commands the hebrews to commit mass murder, even genocide. How is god not complicit in these crimes?

 

[RandFan]

Man's sin is responsible for his sufferings and the sufferings of others. The bible says "the wages of {man's} sin is death".

Well of course. When forces of nature like tidal waves and huricanes kill children it is because of man's sin. When a 3 year old child get's lukemia and suffers it's because of man's sin.

Let's grow up. It's the 21st century. It's time to let go of childish superstitions.

Anyone who rapes and murders (and that includes Moses) is going to pay a terrible price for their sin. But God gives man the free will to rape and murder. If humanity didn't have the free will to rape and murder then they would not possess the gift of free will and would just be puppets.

It would have been nice if god could have sent Moses a commandment "thou shalt not murder children". I guess that would have made Moses a puppet.

I'm curious Doc, are you saying that a person who rapes and murders and then accepts chist in his or her heart will be punished? Help me out on this one.

 

[RandFan]

There are multiple places in the old testament where god commands the hebrews to commit mass murder, even genocide. How is god not complicit in these crimes?

Great, great question. Of course god drowned babies, todlers and infants in the flood. God IS a mass murderer of innocent people. That is not arguable and no Christian that I've ever debated has argued otherwise. They just object to the term murder. What would you call it?

Here are somethings to think about.

1. It is said that a single sin, a lie or an act of unkindness would keep us from god's presense.
2. Further it is said that it is because god is perfect that this is so.
3. How is it perfect to murder children?
4. Why can god cause children to suffer and die and still be perfect but it is not ok for mortals to tell lies and be in his presense?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Walk on water. Turn water into wine.

If I say that I once flew around the world simply by flapping my arms and with some mystical power would you believe me?

Build a pyramid. See aliens did it, or was it Aryans, I forget.

The point is that it would not leave any physical evidence, and few Christians claim that they can walk on water or turn water into wine.

This is rather like the problem that you are not testing the actual ideas being held, but your interpretation of them. Randi has that great analogy with the musician that sums up the problem of what you are doing here.

 

[ponderingturtle]

What is? What are you talking about?

BTW, let's make something clear here. The bible is more like Star Wars or Harry Potter in that it is full of magical thinking so it is not simply stories about fictional people set in historical times. It's about fictional people who have the force with them (the power of god).

You consider any unsupported idea to be as strange as any other. I don't agree.

 

[RandFan]

Build a pyramid. See aliens did it, or was it Aryans, I forget.

Your arguments are incomprehensible. What does this mean?

The point is that it would not leave any physical evidence, and few Christians claim that they can walk on water or turn water into wine.

Huh?

• Christians believe Christ walked on water.
• Christians believe Christ turned water into wine.

These notions are childish myth. We have no more reason to believe them than we have to believe that pigs can fly. They are bizarre notions that if true would radically change our fundamental understanding of our natural world.

This is rather like the problem that you are not testing the actual ideas being held, but your interpretation of them. Randi has that great analogy with the musician that sums up the problem of what you are doing here.

What interpretation? What the hell are you talking about. Can you speak plainly? I'm not interpreting a damn thing. If you ask Randi I'm quite certain he will agree that Jesus walking on water and turning water into wine is complete nonsense. Musician notwithstanding.

So what are you on about?

 

[RandFan]

You consider any unsupported idea to be as strange as any other. I don't agree.

"Unsupported"? No, not simply "unsupported". Contrary to the laws of physics. Silly. Nonsensical. Superstitious.

Could there be a degree of difference? Sure. Superman is more improbable than Spiderman.

Which of the two do you believe in?

I'll quote the *philosopher again, you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

*Christ

 

[ReligionStudent]

Build a pyramid. See aliens did it, or was it Aryans, I forget.

The point is that it would not leave any physical evidence, and few Christians claim that they can walk on water or turn water into wine.

This is rather like the problem that you are not testing the actual ideas being held, but your interpretation of them. Randi has that great analogy with the musician that sums up the problem of what you are doing here.

Yes, but how about writings from Christ lifetime that told these stories.

 

[ReligionStudent]

Man's sin is responsible for his sufferings and the sufferings of others. The bible says "the wages of {man's} sin is death".

Anyone who rapes and murders (and that includes Moses) is going to pay a terrible price for their sin. But God gives man the free will to rape and murder. If humanity didn't have the free will to rape and murder then they would not possess the gift of free will and would just be puppets.

Yes but the bible in other places says other things. such as suffering either can or cannot (completely contrary positions) be passed on from the wrongdoings of ancestors, or that suffering is just caused by god's will and that there is no reason many can possibly hope to understand. You are cherry picking.