What do Mormons believe?

[Yahweh]

Everything I basically know about the Mormon religion comes from that one episode Southpark, and a few things I've picked up in pop-culture.

Apparently, all the information I can find on Google is sub-par apologetics or confessions from ex-Mormons, but I cant actually find much about the Book of Mormon itself.

For instance, I've heard:
* Mormons wear "special underwear" as a sign of the covenant with God
* believe they will inherit their own planet to govern as some kind of meta-god
* believe that the American Indians originated from a tribe in Jerusalem
* believe that the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County in Missouri
* believe in multiple tiers of Heaven and Hell
* that the Book of Mormon was authored by reading gold plates out of a hat

Where does it actually say these things in the Book of Mormon?

 

[Bruce]

Half the people I used to work with were Mormons. All of the stuff you posted is true, except I never heard of the underwear thing. The Mormons I knew weren't quite so adamant about the validity of these beliefs, as Christians are about theirs. For Mormons, it's not about what the book says, it's the lifestyle and sense of community and family values that is important.

The Mormons I know are also much more tolerant of other beliefs than Christians, and have a very good sense of humor about the kookiness of their own. In fact, South Park pretty much nailed everything about Mormons. They are so incredibly friendly that you really would end up being invited to their house after you had initially threatened to kick their asses.

Of all the religious folks I've encountered, Mormons are the easiest to get along with. To quote one of them, whom I consider a friend, "Even if all the stuff I've been told to believe is total bullcrap, and there is no God, I would not have lived my life any differently." I told him the same would be true for me if I found out that there was a God. He was perfectly fine with that.

The other half of my co-workers where Christians. They spoke hatefully about the Mormons behind their backs, even to ME, saying that they weren't true Christians, and that they would never allow their children to date Mormon children. What a bunch of asswipes.

 

[neutrino_cannon]

Far be it from me to lecture on the purity of source material, but South Park doesn't exactly count as educational television.

The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints claims on its own website a shortish list of basic Christian tenents, so vague it's hard to tell exactly what they mean. Such is the case of most official religious websites.

The whole (in my opinion, sordid) history of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints begins with Joseph Smith junior. He claimed that God talked to him, and he wrote down the Book of Mormon, which was supposedly written down by this guy Mormon, an isrealite settler in North America, some time earlier on some seriously expensive paper.

After that, the United States being the bastion of free speech and religion that it is, there were lots of armed conflicts between mormons and non mormons and they eventually made it to their current location with the kindly assistence of some seagulls.


The bigggest difference between mainstream Christianity and Mormonism is Mormonism's inclusion of additional scripture, namely The Book of Mormon. That's about as big a difference as there is between Christians and Jews.

Jeez, I thought it was bad enough when they wrote fanfictions of the Torah, and now someone has gone off and written a fanfic to a fanfic of the Torah.

Anyway, Mormons hold that the churches of the world have left the True Way (tm) (or whatever it is they call it) in The Great Apostasy. They also reject most Christian ceremonies in favor of their own, including baptism for the dead. They also believe a number of things about North America which are too complicated for me to fathom.

Since then there have been breakups within the Mormons, and the inexplicable development of their "clean" image, which contrasts with what America thought of Mormons at large initially (i.e. target practice). A lot of this is due to the Church being a lot more pragmatic, and only trying to get away with what the rest of America will let them get away with. Mainstream Chrtistians still consider them a cult, though that's nothing new. Jack T. Chick in particular seems to have a special fondness for them.


Edit: The bit about underwear sounds like a garbled version of Sikhism.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Everything I basically know about the Mormon religion comes from that one episode Southpark, and a few things I've picked up in pop-culture.

Apparently, all the information I can find on Google is sub-par apologetics or confessions from ex-Mormons, but I cant actually find much about the Book of Mormon itself.]

Okay, I am an ex-mormon so I'll field this one.

For instance, I've heard:
* Mormons wear "special underwear" as a sign of the covenant with God

They are called Temple Garments, so essentially true.

* believe they will inherit their own planet to govern as some kind of meta-god]

Half true-half false. It is doctrine in the church that we are all children of God in a literal sense, with Jesus being essentially the eldest and most favored. So it is a common belief that we will each get our own world to govern someday, but it isn't official doctrine.

* believe that the American Indians originated from a tribe in Jerusalem]

Yes, that is why some Mormons will sometimes refer to Indians as "Lamanites". Mormon Doctrine is that a tribe of Isrealites came to America in ancient times, they split up into the Nephites (good) and the Lamanites (Evil). The Lamanites were marked with dark skin as a sign of their sins, and they wiped out the good Nephites then fell into barbarism. That story comprises much of the book of Mormon

* believe that the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County in Missouri]

Not sure on that one. I never heard it, but that doesn't mean it isn't beleived in some quarters

* believe in multiple tiers of Heaven and Hell]

Yep, sort of. They call the "layers" of Heaven (in descending order) the Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms. Only churchmembers in good standing who have families can enter the Celestial kingdom, I am not clear on what was supposed to get you assigned to which of the two others. However, you can get baptised and married posthumously, if someone else does it on your behalf, which is one of the reasons for the well-known Mormon interest in geneology. Mormons don't beleive in hell, as such.

* that the Book of Mormon was authored by reading gold plates out of a hat]

Not out of a hat, but supposedly it was from gold plates given by the angel Moroni to Joseph Smith and translated by the use of an"Urim and Thummim" which was some sort of mystical thing. I don't remember what it was supposed to look like, but I am pretty sure it wasn't a hat.

Where does it actually say these things in the Book of Mormon? [/B]

Few of the things you mentioned are out of the Book of Mormon. The temple Garments are a tradition that partly comes from an unusual interpretation of some parts of the bible and partly from another book called "Doctrine and Covenants". The "we all will rule a planet thing" is, like I said, a common beleife but not official doctrine and it is based also on unusual interpretations of the bible. The Indian thing is spread all over the book. I do not know if the Jackson Missouri thing is true. but if it is, it would likely be in thier too (hint: anything in the Mromon religion dealing with the New World probably has its origin in the book of Mormon). The "multiple tiers of heaven" is from "Doctrine and Covenants". The story of how Joseph Smith supposedly translated the Book of Mormon is commonly known Mormon Traditiona and I don't recall ever asking where it was written down.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Everything I basically know about the Mormon religion comes from that one episode Southpark, and a few things I've picked up in pop-culture.

Yeah, that episode sticks out in mind when I think or Mormons too: http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-344/epid-286385/

Joseph Smith: I found a new testament of Jesus, here in America!
Martin Harris: In America? That sounds kind of...
Chorus: Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum!

...

Lucy Harris: Did you ever think [Joseph Smith] was just making this up?
Chorus: Lucy Harris-smart-smart-smart-smart. Martin Harris-dum-dum-dum

 

[Questioninggeller]

This is interesting

Kinderhook Plates
To the fledging Mormon community in 1843, it was incredible news: six brass plates had been discovered in a mound in Kinderhook, Illinois. Ancient, marked with strange heiroglyphics, they came to the attention of Joseph Smith, who said they looked remarkably like the lettering of the Book of Mormon and that he thought he might be able to translate them.

Later, these plates were revealed as forgeries; under sworn affidavit, decades later, the creators confessed to their hoax. Of course, this brought up a problem... how had Smith planned to translate them? Did he know they were a hoax? And most importantly... why were Mormons still following the "translated" scriptures?

http://www.rotten.com/library/hoaxes/kinderhook-plates/

Smith: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_Plates

 

[RandFan]

Ex Mormon here,

Where does it actually say these things in the Book of Mormon?

Mormon Cannon of scripture is comprised of 4 books. The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.

The Book of Mormon is believed by Mormons to be primarily an account of a family that left Jerusalem and came to America and their decedents.

The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of writings by Joseph Smith and includes visions and an account of the Early Mormon church. It is here you will find most of the answers to your questions.

The Pearl of Great price, as claimed by Joseph Smith, is an account of Abraham. Joseph claimed that he translated Egyptian hieroglyphics from papyrus that he had been given. Included in the Pearl of Great Price is a copy of some of the hieroglyphs. This was before the Rosetta Stone had been discovered so Joseph could say anything he wanted. Now it is simply an embarrassment because it turns out that what Joseph Smith claimed to have translated was in all actuality a common document from Ancient Egypt known as "The Book of the Dead" and not a single passage matches Joseph Smith's translation.

Randi has made note about this fact and others in his commentary. You can just search for Mormon.

FWIW, Mormon theology holds that people who never heard of Christ will have an opportunity to learn of him and be saved in the after life. Christians simply say those folks are screwed.

There are a number of such interesting points about the Church. I would be happy to answer any questions you have as I'm sure Nyarlathotep would also. But I am MUCH smarter and better looking than Nyarlathotep so ask me.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Re: Re: What do Mormons believe?

Not out of a hat, but supposedly it was from gold plates given by the angel Moroni to Joseph Smith and translated by the use of an"Urim and Thummim" which was some sort of mystical thing. I don't remember what it was supposed to look like, but I am pretty sure it wasn't a hat.

You obviously didn't read the right books as a child. As anyone who read John Bellairs would know, the Urim and Thummin were two magical objects belonging to the high priest of the Levites, used to communicate directly with God. According to The Encyclopaedia of Occultism (a cracking good read), they were cast like dice, and the "yes" or "no" answer was taken to be divinely granted.

Although how was Joseph Smith is supposed to have gotten his hands on them? Did he ever explain, or say he kept them, or just that the angel dropped them off like a Captain Midnight Secret Decoder Ring?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Re: Re: Re: What do Mormons believe?

Although how was Joseph Smith is supposed to have gotten his hands on them? Did he ever explain, or say he kept them, or just that the angel dropped them off like a Captain Midnight Secret Decoder Ring?

The latter, IIRC.

Edited to add: And the angel was also suposed to have taken both the plates and the Urim and Thummim back to heaven soon after Joseph Smith translated the plates.

Pretty convenient, eh?

 

[sackett]

Are we up and at the Mormons again? Oh boy!

Here's another cracking good read:

No Man Knows My History, by Fawn M. Brodie.

The Saints really, really hate this book.

I like to use the Mormons as an awful example of religionism when trying to argue with the faith-filled. I put LDS right up there with Cargo as an illustration of the emptiness of religion.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What do Mormons believe?

The latter, IIRC.

Edited to add: And the angel was also suposed to have taken both the plates and the Urim and Thummim back to heaven soon after Joseph Smith translated the plates.

Pretty convenient, eh?

Hmmm. Did he have to leave his ID with the angel, like when you rent rollerblades? You know, in case he tried to pawn them or something?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Re: Are we up and at the Mormons again? Oh boy!

I put LDS right up there with Cargo as an illustration of the emptiness of religion.

Hey now, you can mock the religion, but you gotta love the pants. Rock on, Cargo Pants Cult.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What do Mormons believe?

Hmmm. Did he have to leave his ID with the angel, like when you rent rollerblades? You know, in case he tried to pawn them or something?

Nah, I think they were rent-to-own but he decided he was paying too much and decided not to keep them.

 

[RandFan]

Re: Are we up and at the Mormons again? Oh boy!

Here's another cracking good read:

No Man Knows My History, by Fawn M. Brodie.

The Saints really, hate this book.

Only tangentially. I dare say >99% of Mormon's don't have a clue what is in it. They simply now that it exists and that it is anti-Mormon. That it exists to simply attack decent people. They also know that there is a rebuttal entitled "No Man, That's Not History". Of course they don't read either book. They assume that since there is a rebuttal then they don't need to worry. This is all my opinion and conjecture BTW.

I like to use the Mormons as an awful example of religionism when trying to argue with he faith-filled. I put LDS right up there with Cargo as an illustration of the emptiness of religion.

Mormons are some of the finest examples of humans that I know of. There are many positive aspects of the religion. Some of my most cherished childhood memories involved the Church and the familial atmosphere. If one could remove all of the hocus pocus nonsense I would be active in it today.

 

[Scot C. Trypal]

Yep, sort of. They call the "layers" of Heaven (in descending order) the Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms. Only churchmembers in good standing who have families can enter the Celestial kingdom, I am not clear on what was supposed to get you assigned to which of the two others. However, you can get baptised and married posthumously, if someone else does it on your behalf, which is one of the reasons for the well-known Mormon interest in geneology. Mormons don't beleive in hell, as such.

My father “in-law” was a bishop and I spent some time as a Mormon as well. From my experience--take it with a grain of salt--I believe it goes:

Celestial > Telestial > Terrestrial > Outer darkness

“You can count the number of souls in Outer Darkness on one hand” I was told in church. This is their Hell, but it’s more like an infinitely large dark room; the torture being the absence of God. So maybe Judas, Satan, and a couple more are there, and very bored. It’s reserved for those nasty beings who are visited by Jesus and 100% know he’s real but reject him anyway.

In the Terrestrial you have everyone else, from Hitler to Gandhi. “If you ever got a glimpse of the Terrestrial Kingdom, even though it’s the least of all the layers of heaven, you’d kill yourself to get there,” I, again, was told. Now just imagine how much better the other two should be!

The Telestial is reserved for baptized Mormons who don’t go all the way, don’t have a temple recommend, don’t have a temple wedding, and so on. I was headed here, until about four years ago when I petitioned to be excommunicated.

And you pretty much covered the Celestial. The temple marriage was the most important requirement here, if I remember. Oddly a man can still be sealed in marriage to more than one woman, say, if hid 1st wife dies, and end up a polygamist in the afterlife, just not in this life anymore.

In all I agree with Bruce. The LDS, in general, are good folks. They have a great emphasis on family and, as I’ve said here before, I’d not mind seeing them take up more of the religious pie around the world.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Re: Re: Are we up and at the Mormons again? Oh boy!

Mormons are some of the finest examples of humans that I know of. There are many positive aspects of the religion. Some of my most cherished childhood memories involved the Church and the familial atmosphere. If one could remove all of the hocus pocus nonsense I would be active in it today.

I have to say I agree with RandFan about hte positive aspects of the religion. The only reason I ever left the church was simply because I didn't beleive what was being taught (especially that whole 'God' thing ), but otherwise it was a positive experience that I actually miss sometimes. I took a lot of good things from the church.

Some people have their horror stories about the church, I am sure, but I am not one of them.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

My father “in-law” was a bishop and I spent some time as a Mormon as well. From my experience--take it with a grain of salt--I believe it goes:

Celestial > Telestial > Terrestrial > Outer darkness

“You can count the number of souls in Outer Darkness on one hand” I was told in church. This is their Hell, but it’s more like an infinitely large dark room; the torture being the absence of God. So maybe Judas, Satan, and a couple more are there, and very bored. It’s reserved for those nasty beings who are visited by Jesus and 100% know he’s real but reject him anyway.

In the Terrestrial you have everyone else, from Hitler to Gandhi. “If you ever got a glimpse of the Terrestrial Kingdom, even though it’s the least of all the layers of heaven, you’d kill yourself to get there,” I, again, was told. Now just imagine how much better the other two should be!

The Telestial is reserved for baptized Mormons who don’t go all the way, don’t have a temple recommend, don’t have a temple wedding, and so on. I was headed here, until about four years ago when I petitioned to be excommunicated.

And you pretty much covered the Celestial. The temple marriage was the most important requirement here, if I remember. Oddly a man can still be sealed in marriage to more than one woman, say, if hid 1st wife dies, and end up a polygamist in the afterlife, just not in this life anymore.

In all I agree with Bruce. The LDS, in general, are good folks. They have a great emphasis on family and, as I’ve said here before, I’d not mind seeing them take up more of the religious pie around the world.

Sounds right in retrospect. It's been...wow.....20 years since I was seriously involved in the church and they say memory is the first thing to go

 

[sackett]

Re: Re: Are we up and at the Mormons again? Oh boy!

. . . If one could remove all of the hocus pocus nonsense I would be active in it today.

But then it wouldn't be Mormonism. How long would it last without the mumbo and jumbo?

 

[Bruce]

All about the Mormons - transcript

"Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in crazy stories that make absolutely no sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make it all up, but I have a great life. and a great family, and I have the Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I don't care if Joseph Smith made it all up, because what the church teaches now is loving your family, being nice and helping people. And even though people in this town might think that's stupid, I still choose to believe in it. All I ever did was try to be your friend, Stan, but you're so high and mighty you couldn't look past my religion and just be my friend back. You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck my balls. [turns around and walks off. All four boys just look at him in wonder, even Cartman.]"

I cheered when I first heard that. I'm an atheist, but I don't hold all of the hate and resentment of religions that many atheists do. There is some good in all religions, and good people will do good things with or without religion. As long as you're not attacking my rights, accusing me of going to hell, or constantly pushing your religion on me, you can believe all the quirky stuff you want. The Mormon faith is no more goofy than any other religion in my view, and most Mormons don't take all their views so literally or seriously. If the current state of the religion is to encourage family values, community, and tolerance, then I'm absolutely ok with it. I just wish that most Christians and Muslims were more like Mormons.

 

[jambo372]

A friend of mine was a mormon.
They aren't allowed to drink alcohol, tea, coffee & stimulant drinks and aren't allowed to smoke.