What do I stand to get from Buddhism?

[yrreg]

What do I stand to get from Buddhism? What does any Buddhist stand to get from Buddhism? What does Gautama stand to get from preaching Buddhism?


Recently I received by postal mail a free issue of some magazine which is starting off, completely free; but with the free issue there is an invitation to sign up and pay up for a six months subscription -- it is a biweekly.

So, I wrote back, thanking them for the free issue, and asking them whether they would be generous to just give me a six months free subscription, completely free, except to give them feedbacks about what can be improved in their magazine and how.

So far no answer, and I don't think they will ever reply, unless and until there is new marketing manager who threw away all previous files and therefore does not know about my request, then he will send me another free issue with a similar invitation to subscribe.


What do I stand to get from or through Buddhism?

I am absolutely certain that everyone here who does read even casually about Buddhism and also also the Buddhists themselves in this forum of the JREF will agree that I stand to get from Buddhism, Nirvana.

But what about the inputs I have to put in to get Nirvana? Very simple:

Accept the Four Noble Truths and Perform the Eightfold Noble Path.​

And how do I know that they make sense and are efficacious or they produce or lead me to Nirvana? Simple again: by Buddhist meditation whereby you will be liberated from your ignorance and thereby also your desire which is the cause of suffering.

Now that the word suffering has appeared, I realize that the whole of Buddhism is all about getting rid of suffering.

All right very good, I can understand suffering, but Nirvana is essentially most fuzzy, even Gautama himself says that Nirvana is being and non-being, and Buddhists after him insist that the self is non-self; so Nirvana is the being and non-being of the non-self for Buddhists after the departure of Gautama to his Nirvana loft -- even though no Buddhist can produce any Buddhist scripture where Gautama categorically states that the self is non-self or in simple language, there is no self.

Well, good, at least I stand to get rid of suffering with Buddhism, but when?

I invite the Buddhists in this forum to enlighten me as to when I will be rid of suffering with and through Buddhism.

Yrreg

 

[logic]

Sad thing is, they can never know for sure when they will attain Nirvana let alone whether Nirvana exists or not.

You might be better off trying to meet the next spaceship when Hale Bop comes around again.

 

[CaptainManacles]

Buddhism makes a few arguments that I find compelling, all pretty much deriving from the idea "nothing will last forever"

An idea that I think few people would disagree with, but that a lot of people don't contemplate the full weight of. The implications of this often don't really hit people until they lose a loved one, and the pain of the loss is made worse by the realization that they'd been living as if the person was going to live forever, even though in the back of your mind you knew that they would not. Buddhists think this is something that you should keep in the foreground of your thoughts, being one of the most catastrophic errors of judgment that people can make.

Similarly, happiness will not last forever. If you try to accumulate enough stuff, enough relationships, a good enough job, a hot enough wife, that you will be happy forever, you will be disappointed. You will probably also end up cheating on your wife, becoming obsessed with your job, being a sociopath and greedy. Everyone is well aware that drug's huge highs and then huge lows had a tendency to result in addiction, but everything in life has highs and lows in lesser degrees, and can result in similarly painful addiction for the same reasons. You can be addicted to pornography, sex, eating, not eating, "non-addictive" drugs, football, and it can cause similar troubles in your life.

But, if you think that giving up these things will make you happy forever, if you ditch your friends, become celibate, quit your job, become homeless, you will simply become cold, lonely, and hungry, possibly dying, and that's lame. There's a happy middle ground.

It also asks the age old philosophical question of "who am I?" What is the self? It answers this in a rather skeptic manner, in that the soul is a delusion, that what constitutes what you see as "self" is just an accumulation of matter and energy, what creates "self" is the same thing that makes up everything else in the world, the "self" is a collection of thoughts, memories, and desires that has come to the delusion that it is not just a collection of thoughts, memories, and desires. It asserts that this delusion is similarly a source of much unnecessary pain.

It also takes the idea of "impermanence" one step further then most people probably would think of in their day to day lives. Though we may realize the fact of impermanence in broad generalizations about our loved ones and so on, Buddhism takes it a step further in saying that delusion grips us every second of every day, and drenches the reasoning behind every action. Combined with the materialist idea of self, it concludes that we do in a very real and practical way die every second of every day.

It makes me think of the philosophical kohan (excuse the pun) of the star-trek type teleporter. A man sues the creator of the teleporter he used, because he claims the teleporter murdered him, and then reconstructed a clone of him elsewhere. The general conclusion being that it is not the physical body that matters, but the mind. However, the mind always changes. You can argue that there is a continuity to the mind which is important, but even the continuity is directed along different paths throughout your life, everything that makes you changes: your memories, thoughts, values.

Buddhism also hold an idea that what we lump together as "emotions" can be precepts, states, and ways of behaving. Some of which you have control of, and some of which you don't. If you ignore or repress your feelings, you're just missing out on a piece of information that could tell you more about your life. If you think you can't control your emotions, you may act like a jerk when you don't really need to.

It also offers up a few ways to help combat those particular delusions. The first and most important step being to just realize that these things are delusions. However, sometimes when you know things intellectually, it can be still hard to understand them practically, which is why it is important to always keep the idea in mind when you are going about your day, and try to be very very aware of why you make decisions and what is going on around you. It takes practice.

The second simplest thing to do is just to notice when you are being greedy, sociopathic, cheating on your wife, ect. First and foremost just stop doing it, then try to figure out why you did and where the error in your reasoning was. Notice when you are being destructive in your life and then try to figure out why. This requires being very aware of your thoughts, feelings, and actions. It takes practice.

Be honest with people as much as possible. Realize that the things you say can be as good of an indicator of what's going on "behind the curtain" so to speak, as your actions.

Moderation. Things are good, but not endless pointless consumption, especially with mind altering substances. There are dozens of reasons why you need to be aware of what you are doing, thinking, and what's going on around you, and why your reasoning needs to stay sharp. Mind altering substances get in the way of all of that, so even more then everything else, limit consumption of it, and there's something to be said for avoiding it all together.

If your job mostly sucks, your life will mostly suck. If your job is mostly good, your life will mostly be good. Also, if the business you work for or run collectively falls under the above delusions, you will suffer collectively.

It bears repeating. It takes practice. You should see better and better results with time, but it will never be perfect, and like all things, there will be slumps.

It bears repeating. Be aware of what you are doing, thinking, feeling, saying, where you are working.

It can help to sit down every now again and just think about stuff, especially being mindful of your delusions. The mind is spread out most of the time, it can help to just sit and do nothing. Also, like most new skills, it can help to start out with something easier. You can practice being very very aware of your thoughts, actions, speech by sitting and focusing on one thing like your thoughts, or one action like your breathing, or just an object in your room. Slowly you'll become better at being aware in your day to day life.

That's the run of it. I agree with most of those things to varying degrees. Some of it is kinda obvious stuff that everyone in this day and age knows. Some of it is stuff you learn more and more as you get older. Some of it is debatably just incorrect, but there it is. That's what Buddhism offers.

 

[yrreg]

Detachment and acceptance.

That's the run of it. I agree with most of those things to varying degrees. Some of it is kinda obvious stuff that everyone in this day and age knows. Some of it is stuff you learn more and more as you get older. Some of it is debatably just incorrect, but there it is. That's what Buddhism offers. -- CaptainManacles​

That is all also propounded and advocated by the common wisdom of mankind from all ages of civilization and society, whether purely philosophy like Stoicism or religion like Baha'i.

I find Buddhist metaphysics quite grotesque in order to firm up the attitude and virtue of detachment and acceptance in regard to the facts of life's limitations and imperfections.


Coming to my question, when does suffering end for the Buddhist?

I know one Buddhist who must be on the verge of bodhi-hood but who had to return to his country, the USA, in order to fix his migraine headache, Bhikkhu Bodhi. I wonder if he ever thinks about whether he is getting any relief in Buddhism from his headache, for all his sangha living and bhikkhu-hood in the Far East, and all his Buddhist learning and translation to English of selected Buddhist scriptures.

The founder of this website, James Randi, also practices detachment and acceptance, I am most certainly sure, because he is an intelligent, smart, and practical guy; otherwise he would be stupid.

Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=findpost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[yrreg]

Famous Buddhist monk seeks headache relief in New York clinic.

Barre Center for Buddhist Studies
http://www.dharma.org/ij/archives/2002b/bhikkhu_bodhi.htm

Home > Ij > Archives > 2002b > An interview with Bhikkhu Bodhi

Climbing to the Top of the Mountain

An interview with Bhikkhu Bodhi

You have lived in a forest monastery in Sri Lanka for many years, Bhante. What brings you to America?

I originally came to the U.S. to visit my father and sister. But for twenty-five years I have been afflicted with a chronic headache condition, which has resisted every type of treatment I have tried to date. My father suggested I arrange a consultation at The Headache Institute of New York, a clinic in Manhattan. Thus for the past few months I have been taking treatment at this clinic.

Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/ind...ost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[T'ai Chi]

What do you want to get from Buddhism? You'll get whatever you put into it.

 

[fuelair]

You................................................................get...............................................
time...................................................................to........
...............................................................................................
....................................................................................................................
................................................................................ponder........................................................................
.............
................................

 

[Dancing David]

What do I stand to get from Buddhism? What does any Buddhist stand to get from Buddhism? What does Gautama stand to get from preaching Buddhism?

You get the dharma and make with it what you will.

Recently I received by postal mail a free issue of some magazine which is starting off, completely free; but with the free issue there is an invitation to sign up and pay up for a six months subscription -- it is a biweekly.

So, I wrote back, thanking them for the free issue, and asking them whether they would be generous to just give me a six months free subscription, completely free, except to give them feedbacks about what can be improved in their magazine and how.

So far no answer, and I don't think they will ever reply, unless and until there is new marketing manager who threw away all previous files and therefore does not know about my request, then he will send me another free issue with a similar invitation to subscribe.


What do I stand to get from or through Buddhism?

Nothing if it is not to your liking. It is up to you.

I am absolutely certain that everyone here who does read even casually about Buddhism and also also the Buddhists themselves in this forum of the JREF will agree that I stand to get from Buddhism, Nirvana.

Once again argument by false assertion, the only claim the buddha made was that the eightfold path would lead to the 'end of suffering'.

But please live in your straw palace and ignore all the things that you could learn.

Your life your path.

But what about the inputs I have to put in to get Nirvana? Very simple:

Those are the 'means to end suffering'.

I suppose that asking for a citation will just produce the usual lack of response.

Did the buddha ever claim that the eightfold path lead to nirvana?

It seems likely, but it is not a place, it is a state of being which is free from restriction, attachment and suffering.

Accept the Four Noble Truths and Perform the Eightfold Noble Path.​

And how do I know that they make sense and are efficacious or they produce or lead me to Nirvana? Simple again: by Buddhist meditation whereby you will be liberated from your ignorance and thereby also your desire which is the cause of suffering.

Once again there is much more to the eightfold path than meditation.

I know that you will ignore the truth in all forms about the dharma.

But here is the benefit of meditation: the practise of mindfullness.
meditation does not establish the 'truth' of the eightfold path, allegedly the practise of the path leads to the decrease of suffering.
Meditation is useful in that it stills the mind, teaches acceptance and is a practise in mindfull awareness, which makes it easier to practise the eightfold path.

Meditation is not the means to understanding the eightfold path, practising the eightfold path is.

Meditation is not the path to liberation, the practise of the 8FP is.

Nowhere does the buddha say that meditation is the path to liberation.

But hey, it is your ignorance, love it as you will.

Now that the word suffering has appeared, I realize that the whole of Buddhism is all about getting rid of suffering.

All right very good, I can understand suffering, but Nirvana is essentially most fuzzy, even Gautama himself says that Nirvana is being and non-being,

Because in that state the person hopefully has realized three things, the reality of words and concepts, the untruth of words and concepts and the wisdom of the Great Hairy Buritto and Nachos.
[/quote]
Buddhists after him insist that the self is non-self; so Nirvana is the being and non-being of the non-self for Buddhists after the departure of Gautama to his Nirvana loft -- even though no Buddhist can produce any Buddhist scripture where Gautama categorically states that the self is non-self or in simple language, there is no self.
[/quote]

You are free in your ignorance, but hey, having cited sources , you will ignore them and feel free to make up your straw bed and lie in it.

Well, good, at least I stand to get rid of suffering with Buddhism, but when?

When you practise, and stop.

I invite the Buddhists in this forum to enlighten me as to when I will be rid of suffering with and through Buddhism.

Yrreg

There is no destination, but if you think that the eightfold path is beneficial then to practise it is a good thing.

The end of suffering is the journey, could be that the goal is different.

Welcome back Yrreg!

 

[UndercoverElephant]

What do I stand to get from Buddhism? What does any Buddhist stand to get from Buddhism?

Nothing.

What does Gautama stand to get from preaching Buddhism?

Nothing.

Recently I received by postal mail a free issue of some magazine which is starting off, completely free; but with the free issue there is an invitation to sign up and pay up for a six months subscription -- it is a biweekly.

So, I wrote back, thanking them for the free issue, and asking them whether they would be generous to just give me a six months free subscription, completely free, except to give them feedbacks about what can be improved in their magazine and how.

So far no answer, and I don't think they will ever reply, unless and until there is new marketing manager who threw away all previous files and therefore does not know about my request, then he will send me another free issue with a similar invitation to subscribe.

What do I stand to get from or through Buddhism?

Nothing.

I am absolutely certain that everyone here who does read even casually about Buddhism and also also the Buddhists themselves in this forum of the JREF will agree that I stand to get from Buddhism, Nirvana.

But what about the inputs I have to put in to get Nirvana? Very simple:

Accept the Four Noble Truths and Perform the Eightfold Noble Path.​

And how do I know that they make sense and are efficacious or they produce or lead me to Nirvana? Simple again: by Buddhist meditation whereby you will be liberated from your ignorance and thereby also your desire which is the cause of suffering.

Now that the word suffering has appeared, I realize that the whole of Buddhism is all about getting rid of suffering.

All right very good, I can understand suffering, but Nirvana is essentially most fuzzy, even Gautama himself says that Nirvana is being and non-being, and Buddhists after him insist that the self is non-self; so Nirvana is the being and non-being of the non-self for Buddhists after the departure of Gautama to his Nirvana loft -- even though no Buddhist can produce any Buddhist scripture where Gautama categorically states that the self is non-self or in simple language, there is no self.

Well, good, at least I stand to get rid of suffering with Buddhism, but when?

I invite the Buddhists in this forum to enlighten me as to when I will be rid of suffering with and through Buddhism.

http://www.well.com/user/jct/

 

[Dancing David]

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/anatta.html

A portion of the
Anattalakkhana Sutta

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Varanasi in the Game Refuge at Isipatana. There he addressed the group of five monks:
'The body, monks, is not self. If the body were the self, this body would not lend itself to dis-ease. It would be possible (to say) with regard to the body, "Let my body be thus. Let my body not be thus." But precisely because the body is not self, the body lends itself to dis-ease. And it is not possible (to say) with regard to the body, "Let my body be thus. Let my body not be thus."
'Feeling is not self.... Perception is not self.... Mental processes are not self....
'Consciousness is not self. If consciousness were the self, this consciousness would not lend itself to dis-ease. It would be possible (to say) with regard to consciousness, "Let my consciousness be thus. Let my consciousness not be thus." But precisely because consciousness is not self, consciousness lends itself to dis-ease. And it is not possible (to say) with regard to consciousness, "Let my consciousness be thus. Let my consciousness not be thus."
'How do you construe thus, monks--Is the body constant or inconstant?' 'Inconstant, Lord.' 'And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?' 'Stressful, Lord.' 'And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: "This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am"?' 'No, Lord.'

 

[Dancing David]

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

​

There seems to be a wierd echo in here.

Hmmm.​

 

[Piggy]

What do I stand to get from or through Buddhism?

I am absolutely certain that everyone here who does read even casually about Buddhism and also also the Buddhists themselves in this forum of the JREF will agree that I stand to get from Buddhism, Nirvana.

Nope. That's not what you'll get.

If you focus on that, you've already lost the chance to get anything at all.

Before I say more, it's worth pointing out that there is no single Buddhism. It's much more diverse than, say, Islam or Judaism or Xianity. You can choose a Tibetan flavor with all its bells and whistles, or a peasant Chinese flavor which is pretty much just animist pantheism, or a monastic flavor of Japanese zen, or any number of other varieties.

But what Buddhism gave me was a means to discipline my behavior and calm my mind.

The group I studied with focused on zazen (just sitting -- nothing more grandiose than that) and conscious movement -- simply being aware of what your body and mind are doing.

Great stuff, that.

The practice of meditation has very down-to-earth, no-nonsense benefits. It does a body/mind good to take a break while remaining conscious.

And during the rest of the day, it's of benefit to me to have strategies that allow me to clear my mind of extraneous thoughts, especially since my brain tends to free associate pretty wildly if I let it.

The thing is, with Buddhism, you can go off into total woo-woo land, or you can stay very grounded and get some benefit from the practice during your time here on earth. I recommend the latter approach.

 

[yrreg]

Buddhism not a DIY restaurant.

What do you want to get from Buddhism? You'll get whatever you put into it.

Buddhism is not like a DIY restaurant where you walk in and pick the ingredients of meats, fishes, vegetables, condiments and instruct the cook how you want them cooked and served.

Quite the contrary, it is like living with your mother-in-law where you have no choice owing to self financial straits and you have to eat whaever she dishes out.

Contrary to what Westerners think it is non-authoritarian and latitudinous in dogmas and rites.

Buddhism like any other religion attracts people who are not born into it but convert into it, owing to their psychology of masochistic submission and self-enslavement.

Sometimes such people wake up and decide to change some doctrines and practices but meet resistance and condemnation from the powers inside; then they either leave Buddhism in disgust, or more likely proceed to found their own school or sect or cult of Buddhism.

Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=findpost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[yrreg]

Navel gazing inanity

You................................................................
get...............................................time...................................................................
to..........................................................................................................................
..............................................................................................................................
...................................................ponder...................................................................
..................................................

If you have to convert to Buddhism or have already converted and thereby find time to ponder, I feel the utmost sorrow for you; because you have consigned yourself to navel gazing where there is neither navel nor gazing in the true inanity of Buddhist metaphysics, that kind by which Gautama but for his Kalama Sutra indulges in his characteristic penchant for neither admitting or denying anything.

But I think I get the real import of your post, it is a very insightful abstract graphic. Good!

Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=findpost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[yrreg]

Incestuous inbreeding of obsolete fallacies...

Welcome back Yrreg!

That is the only positive note in your post, Dancing David.

My fear so far confirmed time and again by your posts in polemics and apologetics pro Buddhism, is that since you signed for Buddhism you have stopped learning anything new or at least different, so that now your mind or brain is atrophied in a mishmash, or better, miasma of Buddhistic figures of speech, to say the least baneful of Buddhism.

 

[yrreg]

Practice self-reliance and self-sufficiency and self-realization.

Before I say more, it's worth pointing out that there is no single Buddhism. It's much more diverse than, say, Islam or Judaism or Xianity. You can choose a Tibetan flavor with all its bells and whistles, or a peasant Chinese flavor which is pretty much just animist pantheism, or a monastic flavor of Japanese zen, or any number of other varieties.

But what Buddhism gave me was a means to discipline my behavior and calm my mind.

Buddhism without Nirvana is like jumping up the bandwagon but never playing in the band.

==================================

If you need self-discipline of your body and calmness of your mind, there are faster and better ways and means to attain such ends. I invite you to stay with me for six months on US dollars 100 a day, bed and board and all lessons included, plus free excursions outside for learning about real life and what it is all about.

At the end of six months you will change your selfhood so that you have now discipline of behavior and calmness of mind.

If you don't succeed the first six months, I will let you in for another term of six months, this time with 10% discount, and every new term of six months with a new 10% discount, until you attain self-discipline of body and mind, or I go bankrupt and close shop.


But you don't really need any Buddhism or any stay with Yrreg, just draw up your assets of health, functioning brain, and capacity for self-introspection and self-direction, then map out your strategies on attaining discipline of body and calmness of mind; and you will succeed, no thanks to Buddhism and anyone else, like Yrreg. It's all self-reliance on the gifts nature has endowed you with -- unless you are plagued by your genes to low IQ and physical deficiencies, like being born blind and dumb.

Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=findpost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[Dancing David]

Buddhism is not like a DIY restaurant where you walk in and pick the ingredients of meats, fishes, vegetables, condiments and instruct the cook how you want them cooked and served.

Hmm, so you ask about buddhism and the you say what it is.

You seem to be very Conditioned.

Time to unplug the training and start some more.
[/quote]

Quite the contrary, it is like living with your mother-in-law where you have no choice owing to self financial straits and you have to eat whaever she dishes out.
[/quote]

It is your choice to live with her, you could go door to door if you wish.

A monk is to eat what is placed in thier bowl.

Contrary to what Westerners think it is non-authoritarian and latitudinous in dogmas and rites.

Hmm, you seem to be in agrement with most here who discuss buddhism.

Buddhism like any other religion attracts people who are not born into it but convert into it, owing to their psychology of masochistic submission and self-enslavement.

Interesting assertion, personal character varies.

Sometimes such people wake up and decide to change some doctrines and practices but meet resistance and condemnation from the powers inside; then they either leave Buddhism in disgust, or more likely proceed to found their own school or sect or cult of Buddhism.

The buddha made suggestions to follow.
His followers had wisdom in varing portions.

Yrreg

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=findpost&pid=500486

You are very attached to the self , no?

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[Dancing David]

That is the only positive note in your post, Dancing David.

My fear so far confirmed time and again by your posts in polemics and apologetics pro Buddhism, is that since you signed for Buddhism you have stopped learning anything new or at least different, so that now your mind or brain is atrophied in a mishmash, or better, miasma of Buddhistic figures of speech, to say the least baneful of Buddhism.

And you have consistantly shown that you care only to look at yourself in the mirror and that you care nothing except for your own thoughts and beliefs.

If my words are harsh, I apologise.

So are you going to apply for the Challenge Yrreg? Are you reading my mind or just guessing.

I still feel that you are placing your own conception upon all around you. Wherein are the polemics?

But hey your life is your own.

If your mirror says that my brain has atrophied, that is on you. And if my harsh words have harmed you then I have regret.

You still couch everything like a catholic, i suppose.

Welcome back Yrreg.

 

[Dancing David]

Buddhism without Nirvana is like jumping up the bandwagon but never playing in the band.

then you have misunderstaood nibbanna. Just because westerners and yourself want to compare it to heaven, and many buddhists do as well.

That is not a teaching of the buddha.

You play in the band all the time. And the bandwagaon would be un uneedful.

==================================

If you need self-discipline of your body and calmness of your mind, there are faster and better ways and means to attain such ends.

Oh enlight us great and mighty one! Speak that we may learn, and then add it to the tool kit.

Have you practised the 8Fp, if it appeals to you what research do you have that it is faster or less faster than any other technique?

I invite you to stay with me for six months on US dollars 100 a day, bed and board and all lessons included, plus free excursions outside for learning about real life and what it is all about.

You assume that Piggy does not know real life?

More psychic powers?

At the end of six months you will change your selfhood so that you have now discipline of behavior and calmness of mind.

If you don't succeed the first six months, I will let you in for another term of six months, this time with 10% discount, and every new term of six months with a new 10% discount, until you attain self-discipline of body and mind, or I go bankrupt and close shop.


But you don't really need any Buddhism or any stay with Yrreg, just draw up your assets of health, functioning brain, and capacity for self-introspection and self-direction, then map out your strategies on attaining discipline of body and calmness of mind; and you will succeed, no thanks to Buddhism and anyone else, like Yrreg. It's all self-reliance on the gifts nature has endowed you with -- unless you are plagued by your genes to low IQ and physical deficiencies, like being born blind and dumb.

Yrreg

the path of yrreg may benefit some and not others, the path of the buddha might benefit some and not others.

Who is to say which is best?

=========================================

My words may not be soothing, but consider the ideas

The Buddhist non-self, and its implications, living the everyday non-self existence?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=findpost&pid=500486

[From the Kalama Sutra by Gautama]

1. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it long ago.
2. Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
3. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
4. Do not confirm anything just because it agrees with your scriptures.
5. Do not foolishly make assumptions.
6. Do not abruptly draw conclusions by what you see and hear.
7. Do not be fooled by outward appearances.
8. Do not hold on tightly to any view or idea just because you are comfortable with it.
9. Do not accept as fact anything that you yourself find to be logical.
10. Do not be convinced of anything out of respect and deference to your spiritual teachers.
11. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reasons and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

See: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm

 

[Dancing David]

Hmmm.

American Heritage Dictionary

ignorance

SYLLABICATION: ig·no·rance
PRONUNCIATION: gnr-ns
NOUN: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

It lacks a pejorative quality because it has limits and scope, one can chose to ignore or do so inadvertantly. It conotates a lack of knowledge in an area, not in all areas.

Be blissful in your ignorance, if you feel that buddhism is not to your liking than leave it in the dustbin.