What did Democrats do wrong?

[Donal]

Which specific "bad decision" by the Dems made you believe that MAGA was better for the country?

Where did I say they were better? I voted Harris and Biden and Clinton. But, I am constantly told how my voice doesn't matter, how I am wrong for wanting better, and to "vote blue no matter who"...except when its not one of the chosen candidates.

Do you believe voters bear zero responsibility for their own choices?

Did I say that? Do you think there are no legitimate gripes about the Democratic Party? Do you believe there was no room for improvement in Harris' campaign?

If the party was "wrong" for its decisions, in what way were voters "correct" to choose the side that is currently dismantling the issues you claim to care about?

I don't have to agree with their decision to empathize with them. Or listen to them.

 

[bruto]

I agree that both-sider-ism isn't unique to the left or the right. It's the same script used for two different ends. For the right, it’s a tactic to suppress the opposition. They don't actually believe it, but they’re happy to amplify it because it helps them win.

The accelerationists on the left are a different problem because they actually believe the rhetoric. They take a bad faith argument and turn it into a "pure" moral stance, effectively doing the opposition’s work for free. You can't change the mind of a dishonest actor on the right, but the trick is to get those accelerationists to realize that they are hurting their own goals, since they obviously don't care that they are hurting other people.

No argument there. Whether or not it can be proven that the "accelerationists" were responsible for the current debacle, it's clear enough that they wanted it more than they wanted the impure alternative, and there is no need to count to the last vote to determine the exact damage their foolish idealism has wrought. Whether they voted for third parties, or joke write-ins, or just stayed home, they got what they should have expected.

 

[wareyin]

Where did I say they were better? I voted Harris and Biden and Clinton. But, I am constantly told how my voice doesn't matter, how I am wrong for wanting better, and to "vote blue no matter who"...except when its not one of the chosen candidates.

That's odd. I keep pointing out that those people saying Dems are too far to the right had voices that did matter. It is strange that you hear "your voice doesn't matter" out of that. No one said you are wrong for wanting better. People are pointing out that your voice was used to make things worse according to what you claim to want. And finally, "vote blue no matter who" is a general election slogan. It was never used in conjunction with "except when it's not one of the chosen candidates," not least of which because once the primaries are over, the voters have chosen the only blue candidate there is.

Did I say that? Do you think there are no legitimate gripes about the Democratic Party? Do you believe there was no room for improvement in Harris' campaign?

You certainly seem to think voters bear no responsibility when you ask, "So, the voters were wrong for not liking the party?" As far as "legitimate gripes," so far not one has been aired that didn't apply 100 fold more to the Republican Party. Helping to elect the Republicans tells me that the person voicing the gripe doesn't actually think it's legitimate.

I don't have to agree with their decision to empathize with them. Or listen to them.

That sounds like you think their decision was not correct.

 

[Donal]

That's odd. I keep pointing out that those people saying Dems are too far to the right had voices that did matter.

And what was the result? Going on tour with Liz Cheney? Childish name calling and shutting them out of the convention? Attacking progressives in the primaries, despite for years claiming primarying incumbents was a sin? Running around with the Israeli flag draped over your back like a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cape?

It is strange that you hear "your voice doesn't matter" out of that.

I see it in their actions

No one said you are wrong for wanting better.

Except when they do.

People are pointing out that your voice was used to make things worse according to what you claim to want.

By stating facts? By wanting a Democratic party that actually pushes for Democratic policies? Am I wrong for saying "I don't agree with this" or "you are going about this the wrong way"?

And finally, "vote blue no matter who" is a general election slogan. It was never used in conjunction with "except when it's not one of the chosen candidates," not least of which because once the primaries are over, the voters have chosen the only blue candidate there is.

*coughMamdanicough*

You certainly seem to think voters bear no responsibility when you ask, "So, the voters were wrong for not liking the party?"

No, I point out there were legitimate criticisms

As far as "legitimate gripes," so far not one has been aired that didn't apply 100 fold more to the Republican Party.

So, the Republicans gave the Democrats an open net and they still couldn't score a goal?

Helping to elect the Republicans tells me that the person voicing the gripe doesn't actually think it's legitimate.

What's the problem? Obviously the Dems didn't think they needed those votes.

That sounds like you think their decision was not correct.

Yes, it was among many decisions I disagree with made during the last election.

 

[wareyin]

And what was the result? Going on tour with Liz Cheney? Childish name calling and shutting them out of the convention? Attacking progressives in the primaries, despite for years claiming primarying incumbents was a sin? Running around with the Israeli flag draped over your back like a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cape?

I see it in their actions

Except when they do.

By stating facts? By wanting a Democratic party that actually pushes for Democratic policies? Am I wrong for saying "I don't agree with this" or "you are going about this the wrong way"?

*coughMamdanicough*

No, I point out there were legitimate criticisms

So, the Republicans gave the Democrats an open net and they still couldn't score a goal?

What's the problem? Obviously the Dems didn't think they needed those votes.


Yes, it was among many decisions I disagree with made during the last election.

You’re complaining that progressives were "attacked" in primaries while they were busy attacking everyone else. That’s just a primary. Once Mamdani won his primary, who told you not to vote for him? (Assuming you are even an NYC resident which I seem to recall is not the case.) Trump. Come on, man.

More importantly, you’re still trying to frame this as the party "failing" to win you over, despite claiming that you actually did vote for them. We can't see who online anonymous posters really voted for, but we can see them telling everyone that the Dems are horrible people for trying to appeal to centrists and even right leaning independents in addition to those on the left in order to prevent the guy who staged a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ coup from being handed the reigns!

Politics isn't a retail transaction where you wait for the perfect product. It is a choice between outcomes. By spending the year amplifying the idea that the party didn't "earn" your vote, that they were too nice to a larger group of voters than yours, that they were absolutely horrible people who are somehow beholden to every donor, you helped create the exact outcome we have now: a government run by the very billionaires you claim to hate. You didn't move the party to the left. You just moved the entire country to the right. Was the "moral" victory of your gripes worth the actual defeat of every policy you care about?

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Did I say that? Do you think there are no legitimate gripes about the Democratic Party? Do you believe there was no room for improvement in Harris' campaign?

I can see you're doing a Socratic thing here, but I can spare you the next ten pages of dissembling responses. This is the same argument wareyin uses for every criticism of Democrats: you are allowed to have gripes, grievances and complaints about anything associated with the Democratic Party, provided that you never* voice them to others. You are allowed one (1) disappointed tsk per electoral period, to use at your discretion. Saying anything more is providing aid and comfort to the Enemies of Democracy, who rely on your keen internet insights to point out the flaws in the otherwise famously cooperative closed ranks of the Democrats.

*Exceptions can be made if your complaints are not about the centrists or moderate Democrats who fall under the big tent of the party and must be welcomed even as they torpedo Democrat-led legislation, but rather the accelerationists, purity testers and progressive Democrats who dishonestly argue with bad faith to hamstring the Dems by being super mean about them online.

I don't know how long it's been going for, but iirc I noticed the pattern back in 2020 when it was vitally important that no one point out Biden was already old as ◊◊◊◊ and shouldn't be relied on to be capable of running for reelection. Boy was that egg on my face!

 

[dirtywick]

both sides aren’t the same but the dems definitely suck, especially the corporate moderate centrists who sold out the country at a more acceptable speed than conservatives

 

[Trausti]

I don't know how long it's been going for, but iirc I noticed the pattern back in 2020 when it was vitally important that no one point out Biden was already old as ◊◊◊◊ and shouldn't be relied on to be capable of running for reelection. Boy was that egg on my face!

LOL

 

[Reformed Offlian]

You’re complaining that progressives were "attacked" in primaries while they were busy attacking everyone else. That’s just a primary. Once Mamdani won his primary, who told you not to vote for him?

Andrew Cuomo?

 

[Solitaire]

I don't know how long it's been going for, but iirc I noticed the pattern back in 2020 when it was vitally important that no one point out Biden was already old as ◊◊◊◊ and shouldn't be relied on to be capable of running for reelection. Boy was that egg on my face!

If anyone doesn't get this joke, ever since he dropped his hat in the ring back in 2019, the the posts at times would go on about his age or health issues or mental abilities for pages and pages for five freaking years. It wasn't a debate, it was a nightmare of bombardment.