What did Democrats do wrong?

[dirtywick]

nobody is forgetting it. it's been brought up and discussed dozens of times. don't mistake the fact that you don't have unanimous agreement that being the magic bullet to a dem win and there weren't other, bigger factors that everybody keeps forgetting it

 

[johnny karate]

Pretty sure most of you guys are forgetting that the party pushed someone who was clearly not healthy or cognitively fit to continue into a 2nd term.... almost to the last moment gambit... before then forcing him off the ticket and putting the VP on the ticket without any follow up primary. And the VP was herself a poor candidate.

That's all before the current ongoing vitriol members of the party are currently engaging in.

Some of you blame conservatives having for having better propaganda and fear mongering for it... I call it terrible management and planning on the part of party leadership. Half of the issues with the democratic ticket wouldn't have been so bad last cycle if they addressed Bidens health concerns early and held a proper primary with better candidates. Instead they spent all but the last 107 days of the campaign gaslighting everyone saying that everything was fine.

It's entirely possible that the democratic ticket might have WON last cycle had they not been in full denial and actually tried to primary for better candidates. But hindsight is 20/20 and I wager not everyone is keen to accept that assessment.

“Biden is old and Harris was a terrible candidate so everyone voted for Trump who is old and was a terrible candidate” remains one of the dumbest takes on the 2024 election.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

“Biden is old and Harris was a terrible candidate so everyone voted for the old guy who was also a terrible candidate” remains one of the dumbest takes on the 2024 election.

Denying (or in your case ignoring) that the media and Democratic leadership lied about his condition until he full out crashed in a nationally televised debate is probably an even worse take. But it's your first amendment right to make a baseless over simplification to suit your needs if you insist on it.

For the record. "Biden was old" and Kamala being a "bad candidate" were not singular factors. A combination of that and the democratic PARTY'S management of the circumstances coincided with policy issues for the outcome. But again, the inability to objectively analyze their shortcomings is the reason why your take falls short here.

 

[theprestige]

I think it goes back to the Bush era. That's when progressives started going all-out, trying to make it clear that they hated any American who disagreed with them. That's the zeitgeist Trump tapped into. That's the zeitgeist Biden and Harris (and Hillary before them) did nothing to dispell.

Put enough effort into convincing half the electorate that you're their enemy and that you will always hate them and attack them, then come crying when they elect someone to fight back? That's what the Democrats did wrong.

Trump didn't have to happen. But the way progressives went, when Dubya won, pretty much guaranteed that he would happen.

 

[johnny karate]

Denying (or in your case ignoring) that the media lied about his condition until he full out crashed in a nationally televised debate is probably an even worse take. But it's your first amendment right to make a baseless over simplification to suit your needs if you insist on it.

For the record. "Biden was old" and Kamala being a "bad candidate" were not singular factors. A combination of that and the democratic PARTY'S management of the circumstances coincided with policy issues for the outcome. But again, the inability to objectively analyze their shortcomings is the reason why your take falls short here.

Yes, everyone who voted for the gibbering idiot who blurted out “They’re eating the pets” on live T.V. did so because they responded to what an excellent candidate with a smoothly-running campaign he was. Well argued.

 

[johnny karate]

I think it goes back to the Bush era. That's when progressives started going all-out, trying to make it clear that they hated any American who disagreed with them. That's the zeitgeist Trump tapped into. That's the zeitgeist Biden and Harris (and Hillary before them) did nothing to dispell.

Put enough effort into convincing half the electorate that you're their enemy and that you will always hate them and attack them, then come crying when they elect someone to fight back? That's what the Democrats did wrong.

Trump didn't have to happen. But the way progressives went, when Dubya won, pretty much guaranteed that he would happen.

Oh look, it’s a Conservative Bingo two-for-one!

Persecution Complex and Trump Happened Because of Liberals!

 

[theprestige]

Oh look, it’s a Conservative Bingo two-for-one!

Persecution Complex and Trump Happened Because of Liberals progressives!

FTFY.

 

[theprestige]

Persecution Complex

It's not a complex if the persecution is real. Which it is. Don't even try to pretend progressives don't persecute dissenters.

 

[dirtywick]

i noticed you didn’t fix the persecution complex part

 

[johnny karate]

It's not a complex if the persecution is real. Which it is. Don't even try to pretend progressives don't persecute dissenters.

Weird timing for this claim when the Trump administration just declared war against everyone they don’t like and is lighting the First Amendment on fire in the process.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Yes, everyone who voted for the gibbering idiot who blurted out “They’re eating the pets” on live T.V. did so because they responded to what an excellent candidate with a smoothly-running campaign he was. Well argued.

I'll acknowledge Trump says stupid things, and his comments about the "cats and dogs" are no exception. But baggage like this was already known and the scrutiny he got made him a known variable.

It doesn't absolve the fact that the media told bald faced lies to the electorate about Biden's fitness.
It doesn't absolve the fact that Democratic Leadership was complicit in those lies.
It doesn't absolve the fact that the left calls anyone that disagrees with them fascist sympathizers (reminder, Harris replaced Biden and was never put through any kind of voting process for her candidacy after the party threw Biden under the bus).
It doesn't absolve you or others of the willful ignorance to not acknowledge you were lied to, nor the unwillingness to discuss their general electoral shortcomings that were fixable.
It doesn't absolve your argument, the media or the democratic leadership of falsely painting half of the country as racist, sexist, homophobic, Hitler loving bigots (irresponsible rhetoric that motivated two assassination attempts on Trump, and a successful one on Charlie Kirk along with some parts of the population irrationally CELEBRATING it.)

Frankly, I'll reiterate that the election was winnable for Democrats if they addressed their campaigning issues a year or two earlier and kept a lid on hyper partisan progressives demonizing half of the country with outrageous hyperbole. But again, pointing this out constructively with you doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, and you've used up your allotment with me. So feel free to come up with whatever witty retort you want to finish this conversation

 

[johnny karate]

I'll acknowledge Trump says stupid things, and his comments about the "cats and dogs" are no exception. But baggage like this was already known and the scrutiny he got made him a known variable.

It doesn't absolve the fact that the media told bald faced lies to the electorate about Biden's fitness.
It doesn't absolve the fact that Democratic Leadership was complicit in those lies.
It doesn't absolve the fact that the left calls anyone that disagrees with them fascist sympathizers (reminder, Harris replaced Biden and was never put through any kind of voting process for her candidacy after the party threw Biden under the bus).
It doesn't absolve you or others of the willful ignorance to not acknowledge you were lied to, nor the unwillingness to discuss their general electoral shortcomings that were fixable.
It doesn't absolve your argument, the media or the democratic leadership of falsely painting half of the country as racist, sexist, homophobic, Hitler loving bigots (irresponsible rhetoric that motivated two assassination attempts on Trump, and a successful one on Charlie Kirk along with some parts of the population irrationally CELEBRATING it.)

Frankly, I'll reiterate that the election was winnable for Democrats if they addressed their campaigning issues a year or two earlier and kept a lid on hyper partisan progressives demonizing half of the country with outrageous hyperbole. But again, pointing this out constructively with you doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, and you've used up your allotment with me. So feel free to come up with whatever witty retort you want to finish this conversation

Thank you for the permission to respond to you. I’m honored.

This brick wall you keep running face-first into is that whatever criticism you have of Biden and Harris that you claim turned voters away from them (at least the ones with a basis in reality) also apply to Trump, so your theory kind of falls apart.

Biden was old, Harris was a bad candidate, the campaigns were poorly run, none of it tracks as a viable reason because the same can be said of Trump. So clearly voters had other motivations.

That they fell for a massive propaganda campaign explains it quite neatly, and also explains why so many voters are unhappy with getting exactly what they voted for. Because their vote wasn’t dictated by policy or candidate quality, it was dictated by propaganda. They literally didn’t know what they were voting for.

Also would love to know what alternate universe you live in where there was a massive conspiracy of silence about Biden’s fitness.

In this universe, it was all the media talked about for months and the only conspiracy of silence about a president’s fitness is the current one in which the same media seems entirely uninterested in Trump’s alarmingly rapid decline and undisclosed health issues.

 

[arthwollipot]

Frankly, I'll reiterate that the election was winnable for Democrats if they addressed their campaigning issues a year or two earlier and kept a lid on hyper partisan progressives demonizing half of the country with outrageous hyperbole.

You mean, like what the Republicans are doing now?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Weird timing for this claim when the Trump administration just declared war against everyone they don’t like and is lighting the First Amendment on fire in the process.

To Republicans, anyone that is critical of anything they say is persecuting them. This sentiment was amplified by the GOP in the Gingrich era, but it was always there.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Thank you for the permission to respond to you. I’m honored.

This brick wall you keep running face-first into is that whatever criticism you have of Biden and Harris that you claim turned voters away from them (at least the ones with a basis in reality) also apply to Trump, so your theory kind of falls apart.

Biden was old, Harris was a bad candidate, the campaigns were poorly run, none of it tracks as a viable reason because the same can be said of Trump. So clearly voters had other motivations.

That they fell for a massive propaganda campaign explains it quite neatly, and also explains why so many voters are unhappy with getting exactly what they voted for. Because their vote wasn’t dictated by policy or candidate quality, it was dictated by propaganda. They literally didn’t know what they were voting for.

Also would love to know what alternate universe you live in where there was a massive conspiracy of silence about Biden’s fitness.

In this universe, it was all the media talked about for months and the only conspiracy of silence about a president’s fitness is the current one in which the same media seems entirely uninterested in Trump’s alarmingly rapid decline and undisclosed health issues.

Most of the time I refuse to believe they're arguing in good faith. Especially when absolutely every single one of their paper-thin accusationss are confessions. "I dislike lies, so I want the guy who lied 30 500 times during his first term!" . "I think the Democrats are calling too many people fascist, so I want the guy who calls everyone who disagree with them woke communists and demonize everyone from coloured people to trans kids!"

 

[Grizzly Bear]

You mean, like what the Republicans are doing now?

Instead of responding with the "But Republicans..." and "but Trump" line. Maybe you can address how I am wrong about the democratic ticket failing to run a proper primary? Or maybe how they covered up Biden having health problems significant enough to severely impair his performance? Do you think bad messaging on Harris' part played negatively? And what are your thoughts on the ticket selecting Harris after forcing Biden off the ticket? Should Democrat voters been given a choice in selecting an alternate?

If you don't want to address it just say so. Being upfront will save time for everyone and It'll save me the time of asking again. I'd be open to hearing you out further on other issues if you decide things can be discussed

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I think it goes back to the Bush era. That's when progressives started going all-out, trying to make it clear that they hated any American who disagreed with them. That's the zeitgeist Trump tapped into. That's the zeitgeist Biden and Harris (and Hillary before them) did nothing to dispell.

Put enough effort into convincing half the electorate that you're their enemy and that you will always hate them and attack them, then come crying when they elect someone to fight back? That's what the Democrats did wrong.

Trump didn't have to happen. But the way progressives went, when Dubya won, pretty much guaranteed that he would happen.

Oh, cool. Glittering generalities; I can do those, too. How about this: Trump's election had zero to do with Dubya and everything to do with half of white America losing its ◊◊◊◊ after a black man got elected President.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Also would love to know what alternate universe you live in where there was a massive conspiracy of silence about Biden’s fitness.

I recall a brief surge of copium and defensiveness among pro-Democratic pundits in the immediate aftermath of Biden's alarming debate performance, but it didn't last long.

 

[theprestige]

Oh, cool. Glittering generalities; I can do those, too. How about this: Trump's election had zero to do with Dubya and everything to do with half of white America losing its ◊◊◊◊ after a black man got elected President.

"going all-out, trying to make it clear that they hated any American who disagreed with them"

QED

You ever think maybe vast swaths of the American public are sick and tired of you playing the race card, any time you encounter dissent? Probably you don't, because you actually believe vast swaths of the American public are irrevocably racist.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

"going all-out, trying to make it clear that they hated any American who disagreed with them"

QED

You ever think maybe vast swaths of the American public are sick and tired of you playing the race card, any time you encounter dissent? Probably you don't, because you actually believe vast swaths of the American public are irrevocably racist.

At this point, is there a reason I shouldn't believe that? That racists do not like being called out is not a reason not to call them out.