What did Democrats do wrong?

[thaiboxerken]

His supporters want Ukraine to die, and become part of the Russian Empire again.

Today they do. Prior to Trump winning, they wanted Ukraine to kick Russia out.

 

[johnny karate]

12 million voters didn't show up for the Democrats in this election as compared to last - are you telling me people are so driven by bigotry they just stayed at home?

People who voted for Trump and people who didn’t vote at all are two different groups of people.

 

[johnny karate]

I was struck by his comment that people asked him if he was still a Democrat anymore after his apostasy on transwomen in women's sports. Turning this issue into a litmus test when about 80% of the population is on the other side strikes me as political suicide. And the irony is that Democrats desperately don't want to debate this issue, so they can't even claim they are in the process of educating the public and bringing them around to their side. There are some interesting parallels with this forum; note the siloed discussion of most trans issues to "the thread that shall not be named."

Yes, imagine a discussion forum relegating a specific topic to the threads that are about that topic. Madness.

But thanks for proving my point. If an issue that impacts very few people’s lives is the animating one that gets people to ignore the much bigger issues that impact most people, there’s not really an argument to be made that’s a rational choice.

 

[theprestige]

His supporters want Ukraine to die, and become part of the Russian Empire again.

What's that? Peace at the cost of Ukraine's independence?

Yes. He and his supporters might frame it differently, but he campaigned on this outcome, people voted for him hoping for this outcome, and he's succeeding so far in his attempts to achieve this outcome.

It is a mistake to say he's failing at every major issue his supporters claim are the reason they voted for him. On at least one major issue, he's succeeding.

Today they do. Prior to Trump winning, they wanted Ukraine to kick Russia out.

No. There has been an isolationist, America-first faction on the right that was in favor of withdrawing from NATO and winding down the Pax Americana, before the 2014 invasion of Ukraine. They were always in favor of America letting Ukraine fend for itself. They voted for Trump because Trump played to that desire.

There are others of us on the right who are not isolationists, who always favored a strong and victorious Ukraine, and who have not changed our views on this since the election.

Another thing the Democrats probably did wrong was woefully and intentionally misunderstand this.

 

[johnny karate]

He's succeeding at what his supporters wanted for Ukraine.

He is? Let’s take a look at the expectations of two vocal Trump supporters on this forum:

Trump will quickly bring the war to an end. There will be a negotiated solution. Ukraine will lose territory, but the people of Kiew will be able to sleep in peace.

You should have hope with Trump... that no more healthy male Ukranians will need to die in a futile war come January. Putin will save face with a Trump deal. Kamala will just extend the war machine efforts.
Putinwill not make a deal with her.

Not that they would ever admit their disappointment, it’s hard to deny that their expectations weren’t met. If they were ever even genuine expectations in the first place.

Trump claimed on several occasions that he would end the war on day one. A claim that at least one Trump supporter on this forum took at face value. Trump was obviously lying and this morning admitted as much. Where the ceasefire negotiations now stand is Russia rejecting the U.S. terms and demanding to set their own.

Unless you want to claim the what his supporters wanted was for Trump to be dog-walked by Putin, I honestly have no I idea what the ◊◊◊◊ you’re talking about when you say Trump is succeeding.

 

[johnny karate]

Yes. He and his supporters might frame it differently, but he campaigned on this outcome, people voted for him hoping for this outcome, and he's succeeding so far in his attempts to achieve this outcome.

It is a mistake to say he's failing at every major issue his supporters claim are the reason they voted for him. On at least one major issue, he's succeeding.

No. There has been an isolationist, America-first faction on the right that was in favor of withdrawing from NATO and winding down the Pax Americana, before the 2014 invasion of Ukraine. They were always in favor of America letting Ukraine fend for itself. They voted for Trump because Trump played to that desire.

There are others of us on the right who are not isolationists, who always favored a strong and victorious Ukraine, and who have not changed our views on this since the election.

Another thing the Democrats probably did wrong was woefully and intentionally misunderstand this.

You’re just retconning a policy that Trump didn’t really even have before the election to claim he was successful at implementing it. Pretty much all Trump ever said was that he would end the war. He’s already failed at his promised timeline for that and now the U.S. is being steamrolled by Russia in the ceasefire negotiations.

If you’ve got polling that indicates Trump supporters wanted him to capitulate to Putin, I’d like to see it.

 

[Hercules56]

delete

 

[johnny karate]

The reason why Trump won is because 12 million Democrat voters stayed home and "bu bu bu because Trump" isn't the reason for that, men in women's safe spaces was

A) Highly specious claim in need of a citation.

B) Anyone who is comfortable with allowing a sex abuser into the White House to destroy the economy and allow children to die of preventable diseases isn’t interested in keeping anyone safe, let alone women.

 

[johnny karate]

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/f548560f100205ef/e656ddda-full.pdf

"Of the 2,128 Democrats who participated, 79% said biological males who identify as women should not be allowed to participate in women's sports."

Not a vote winner for the Dems, neither is mutilating children with no scientific backing it's appropriate

That says nothing about voter turnout. Your claim was that 12 million voters stayed home because of this issue. You need data to support that specific claim.

 

[Tero]

I keep running into a bunch of people that claim that "Democrats are to blame." And then when I ask for details, we are somehow to blame for chasing the crowd of stupid people to Fox News and then shutting us off. Somehow we insulted the basket of deplorabes. Who were long way in the deplorable direction long before 2016.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

B) Anyone who is comfortable with allowing a sex abuser into the White House to destroy the economy and allow children to die of preventable diseases isn’t interested in keeping anyone safe, let alone women.

But my clutching pearls!!

 

[Emily's Cat]

That is putting it mildly. Your own source notes that more than three-quarters of improper payments result from administrative omissions on the part of third parties, such as state governments and contractors. This suggests that anyone looking for fraud, waste, and abuse here by "draining the swamp" is looking in the wrong place.

The factsheet further identifies one of the main factors in the improvement from the early 2010s as being improved compliance from state governments. Let's see, was there anything going on politically in the early 2010s that might have contributed to poor state compliance with federal healthcare policy? Perhaps something that rhymes with "refund Osama dare"?

Your ability to politicize and weaponize ANYTHING AT ALL is kind of astonishing. Seriously, I provided a reasonable discussion point about efficiency, and the how incentives differ in the private sector, with no discussion of any party at all... and you're turning it into yet another opportunity to get your rocks off by exclaiming how evil those other guys are. It's tiring.

Also, ACA and all of the arguments surrounding it don't affect Medicare. They're separate entities, with separate regulations, separate contracting processes, separate reporting, and entirely separate funding.

Is that what your source claims, or did you make that bit up?

The improper payment rate noted in the factsheet for Medicaid is even lower than that of Medicare Part C. Is that because it's even more privately administered?

Medicare FFS in my source was 7.66%. Medicare Part C was 5.61%. I'm not sure why you think 7.66% is less than 5.61%.

 

[Emily's Cat]

12 million voters didn't show up for the Democrats in this election as compared to last - are you telling me people are so driven by bigotry they just stayed at home?

REalistically, it's not that 12 million didn't show up for Dems this election. It's that the prior election had an absolutely unprecedented turnout.

Voter Turnout in Presidential Elections | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

2020 had turnout levels that haven't been seen since 1968.

 

[Manger Douse]

REalistically, it's not that 12 million didn't show up for Dems this election. It's that the prior election had an absolutely unprecedented turnout.

Voter Turnout in Presidential Elections | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

2020 had turnout levels that haven't been seen since 1968.

2024 was a 4% drop from the previous election and apart from 08 was also the highest since 1968

 

[theprestige]

I just think it is interesting how Democrats can be actively pushing for surgery on transgender children at the same they are widely opposed to it.

Democrat voters aren't into it. Activists and ideologically captured politicians have been pushing it anyway. Speaking of things the Democrats did wrong.

 

[johnny karate]

Democrat voters aren't into it. Activists and ideologically captured politicians have been pushing it anyway. Speaking of things the Democrats did wrong.

Yes, this must be what explains it. Voters wanted to protect children. That’s why we have an anti-vaxxer government now.

 

[dirtywick]

it's funny how bad the only thing these guys have talked about for the last 4 years to be what decided the election.

yeah it probably was that

 

[jimbob]

I have moved 62 posts to AAH because they were simply rehashing the same trans stuff that has its own thread

Keep on topic

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Susheel]

Media: What are your views on transgender rights.
Dems: I think they should be able to enjoy the same rights as any other American.
Maga: The Dems want to make your kids transgender.
I guess, I have summarised the American pre-election rhetoric accurately.

 

[Pixel42]

Media: What are your views on transgender rights.
Dems: I think they should be able to enjoy the same rights as any other American.
Maga: The Dems want to make your kids transgender.
I guess, I have summarised the American pre-election rhetoric accurately.

All Americans have the right to access the sex segregated spaces and sports leagues of the opposite sex? I didn't know that.