What did Democrats do wrong?

[theprestige]

MAGA considers any aid or govt program with a progressive or liberal bent to be "fraud".

MAGA won the election.

So tell me again how smart Democrats were, to campaign on "progressive" and "liberal".

 

[dirtywick]

We'll find out. Say the Muskrat toots his horn about saving $3t out of annual spending, and has the receipts. Sounds good (although lives were certainly wrecked in the process). But then two years down the line the damage starts showing up, since a lot of spending is playing the long game. Then we find that to stopgap and fix the problems will cost $2t, and by the time they are actually done in a few years, it ended up being $3.5 to fix. That's kind of how I see it playing out. We won't know the damages till likely in the next Democrat administration, and the Republicans will surely blame them for it.

there’s an underlying assumption that the government is massively inefficient in a way that the private sector is not. i’ve worked in the private sector most of my life and don’t see what all the fuss is about.

anyway, certainly you’d have to admit that a bunch of the most successful private sector businessmen in human history taking the government over and saving $3t by spending $3.5t would be pretty damning evidence against private sector efficiency. and to me it looks like you’re maybe going to get a record time economic collapse to go along with it.

but we’ll see. maybe they got something up their sleeve. these guys seem really smart and efficient

 

[Thermal]

Not sure where you're getting that $3 trillion in savings figure.

"Say he saved $3t". Purely made up number that was easy to type.

Everything from the alleged fraud and waste they are finding to the money they are saving relies on believing the word of grifters and criminals.

Yup. But even giving them a much unwarranted benefit of the doubt, it wouldn't mean anything till the dust settles. The only thing he could even in theory claim is he stopped spending in amount X. It doesn't mean he saved a dime on balance if we have to spend X+Y in unforeseen damage controls resulting from the unplanned slash and burn.

 

[johnny karate]

MAGA won the election.

So tell me again how smart Democrats were, to campaign on "progressive" and "liberal".

MAGA won the election because propaganda works.

So tell me again how smart it is to vote for a recession and anti-vaxxerism.

 

[theprestige]

MAGA won the election because propaganda works.

So tell me again how smart it is to vote for a recession and anti-vaxxerism.

This is a thread about what Democrats did wrong. Not about how you think everyone should have voted.

 

[Thermal]

there’s an underlying assumption that the government is massively inefficient in a way that the private sector is not. i’ve worked in the private sector most of my life and don’t see what all the fuss is about.

I dunno. Like most people (I guess), I have a dozen or so friends and family that work in or peripheral to government (contractors). Every one without exception says however bad you might think Federal bloated inefficiency is, it's really many times worse. Like at a scale you wouldn't believe. That generations-old reputation did not come out of nowhere. Couple guys that work as contractors for the FAA frequently tell me that you could kill off a select two out of three people there and there would literally be no difference.

anyway, certainly you’d have to admit that a bunch of the most successful private sector businessmen in human history taking the government over and saving $3t by spending $3.5t would be pretty damning evidence against private sector efficiency. and to me it looks like you’re maybe going to get a record time economic collapse to go along with it.

I think.it would show that Elon apparently functions well as a corporate moneymaker (kinda hard to deny with that whole richest man in the world thingy), and that kinda has nothing to do with how the Federal budget works. A great soccer player might be pretty useless at throwing knife competitions, too.

but we’ll see. maybe they got something up their sleeve. these guys seem really smart and efficient

Oh, they know what they are doing, I'm positive. But it won't get said out loud on a microphone.

 

[dirtywick]

I dunno. Like most people (I guess), I have a dozen or so friends and family that work in or peripheral to government (contractors). Every one without exception says however bad you might think Federal bloated inefficiency is, it's really many times worse. Like at a scale you wouldn't believe. That generations-old reputation did not come out of nowhere. Couple guys that work as contractors for the FAA frequently tell me that you could kill off a select two out of three people there and there would literally be no difference.

I think.it would show that Elon apparently functions well as a corporate moneymaker (kinda hard to deny with that whole richest man in the world thingy), and that kinda has nothing to do with how the Federal budget works. A great soccer player might be pretty useless at throwing knife competitions, too.

Oh, they know what they are doing, I'm positive. But it won't get said out loud on a microphone.

if the federal government is really that bloated and inefficient it will be easy to save money with no loss of service, won’t be this herculean task that takes years and a complete understanding of the entire system to root out some inefficiencies. 2 out of 3 useless people, you could fire at random and be mostly right. should be a no brainer here.

if your buddies are to be believed anyway.

 

[Thermal]

if the federal government is really that bloated and inefficient it will be easy to save money with no loss of service, won’t be this herculean task that takes years and a complete understanding of the entire system to root out some inefficiencies. 2 out of 3 useless people, you could fire at random and be mostly right. should be a no brainer here.

if your buddies are to be believed anyway.

Fire the wrong one and you're toast. Identifying the right one is super tricky. Who's going to tell you who the one guy is that is doing the work? His coworkers, who will be the ones getting fired?

 

[johnny karate]

This is a thread about what Democrats did wrong. Not about how you think everyone should have voted.

Wrong answers only apparently, according to your post.

 

[dirtywick]

Fire the wrong one and you're toast. Identifying the right one is super tricky. Who's going to tell you who the one guy is that is doing the work? His coworkers, who will be the ones getting fired?

yeah i get it, it’s this massively bloated and inefficient organization but simultaneously really difficult to find the inefficiency and bloat that’s pervasive everywhere in it.

 

[Thermal]

yeah i get it, it’s this massively bloated and inefficient organization but simultaneously really difficult to find the inefficiency and bloat that’s pervasive everywhere in it.

Right. When two out of three government workers are dead weight and they know it, it's hard to get them to raise their hand and say "ya I don't really do anything". You have it exactly, precisely surprisingly right.

 

[Hercules56]

Based on Trump over the last 2 months, it's clear that the reason why the Democrats lost is because they didn't lie to the American people as much as Trump did.

2016 and 2020 shows that the biggest liar wins the election.

 

[dirtywick]

Right. When two out of three government workers are dead weight and they know it, it's hard to get them to raise their hand and say "ya I don't really do anything". You have it exactly, precisely surprisingly right.

i'm reminded of carl sagan's invisible government inefficiency in his garage.

 

[Thermal]

i'm reminded of carl sagan's invisible government inefficiency in his garage.

Where are you going with this? You have reason to believe one of the planets most massive multitrillion dollar bureocracies that hasn't balanced a budget in years and racks up debt at an unprecedented scale knows what the ◊◊◊◊ it's doing? Cuz that's not the impression I get.

 

[johnny karate]

Based on Trump over the last 2 months, it's clear that the reason why the Democrats lost is because they didn't lie to the American people as much as Trump did.

2016 and 2020 shows that the biggest liar wins the election.

Trump lost in 2020.

 

[dirtywick]

Where are you going with this? You have reason to believe one of the planets most massive multitrillion dollar bureocracies that hasn't balanced a budget in years and racks up debt at an unprecedented scale knows what the ◊◊◊◊ it's doing? Cuz that's not the impression I get.

kind of repeating myself here, but what i’m getting at is there’s an assumption that the private sector can do better, and i question that. i’m not convinced the private sector is as efficient as its made it out to be. if the government is that inefficient, it should be trivially easy to improve efficiency. the private sector currently has the means and opportunity to do so. the trump administration is basically a group of some of the most successful businessmen in the country and he hand picked a cabinet of billionaires to enact their pet projects. and if they fail to cut costs while at least maintaining or improving service levels, which i would consider a fair measure of efficiency, it’s evidence that the government inefficiency we take as a given isn’t as bad as we assume it is. that it can’t be both incredibly inefficient and bloated, but also impossible to measure or identify how or to offer any improvement. and that perhaps as a given the private sector isn’t capable of doing better. maybe the problems in government have been completely misidentified by people acting in bad faith and they’re going to show their asses

 

[Donal]

I dunno. Like most people (I guess), I have a dozen or so friends and family that work in or peripheral to government (contractors). Every one without exception says however bad you might think Federal bloated inefficiency is, it's really many times worse.

And I say the same thing about the private sector.

Like at a scale you wouldn't believe. That generations-old reputation did not come out of nowhere.

Republican propaganda?

Couple guys that work as contractors for the FAA frequently tell me that you could kill off a select two out of three people there and there would literally be no difference.

Source: Trust me, bro. There's research that says anywhere between 20-50% jobs over all (but mostly in the private sector) are generally useless.

I think.it would show that Elon apparently functions well as a corporate moneymaker (kinda hard to deny with that whole richest man in the world thingy), and that kinda has nothing to do with how the Federal budget works. A great soccer player might be pretty useless at throwing knife competitions, too.

Maybe it says something about our economic system when the richest man in the world is a vaporware salesman. Do you really belief wealth is a direct result of actual value to society?

Oh, they know what they are doing, I'm positive. But it won't get said out loud on a microphone.

Plundering our treasury for their personal benefit?

 

[Random]

it’s so inefficient it would take too long to figure out how inefficient it is.

imo the simple fact is it won’t be years before anyone determines anything because they’re not even looking

There seems to be this recurring idea that no one ever looks at the Federal Budget and so lots of waste, fraud and abuse must be in it. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Every President, Senator and House Representative has staffers going through the budget on a regular basis looking for things to cut. Not because they care about the deficit (anyone in DC who actually cares about the deficit is a sucker, but that's a whole other story), but because they want to free up money for their own projects. Anything in the budget that does not have political support from somebody is quickly cannibalized for resources. One man's "waste, fraud and abuse" is another man's "vital constituent interest".

In theory, Congress has the power of the purse and decides amongst the People's Representatives where the money should go. Everyone gets a say in what should be spent where.

That is... not what is happening now.

 

[Donal]

Government waste is one of those topics that has a million books, a billion articles, and a trillion speeches over "what nobody wants to talk about".

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Musk and Trump are going at cuts as if the U.S. government were a business. However, it appears that they are tackling it like a hedge fund taking over a viable company, selling off the good parts, and loading the remnants with debt so that it eventually goes into bankruptcy, firing employees as it goes. Their changes are arbitrary and non-transparent, and the 'plan' doesn't exist, aside from a desire to make chaos that they can feed from.

The government is not and should not be run like a business. The government's job is to tackle the things that are useful to the public but private enterprise rarely does without immediate benefit, like infrastructure and public safety. It taxes people to bring this about. Sometimes we get long term benefits from the programs, like the WPA building Hoover Dam.

Nothing of the sort: no company would focus on firing people from the department that brings in the money (IRS), or the department that makes sure the company isn't being defrauded (Inspectors general, Consumer Protection), or the one that is most positively associated with your brand: Veterans affairs.
Your stock would TANK if investors knew that you gave admin access to your core, essential and all-data containing program to a completely inexperienced guy who has in the past been fired for leaking proprietary information. Messing around with the bonds you issued, deciding to buy Crypto to replace your AAA bonds - no company would ever be run like this.

They are not even vulture capitalists who want to sell off bit of the Federal Government for maximum profit.

No, they are actively destroying and sabotaging the Federal Government so that it will be sold to private companies at MINIMUM profit for the State - it's a fire sale after setting fire to the house.