What did Democrats do wrong?

[stanfr]

Is this the Dem version of "voter fraud, it doesn't count"?

Yeah, pretty much, except unlike the Trumpists, they actually have statistical evidence. Of course that begs the question of why they haven't pursued a remedy. One possible reason is that there is nothing there (I haven't personally examined the numbers) Another reason is that the Libs/Dems bend over backwards to not appear hypocritical. I think they need to get over that irrational fear, because obviously we are dealing with a lunatic whose very mantra is hypocrisy ("I'm not a liar--YOU are!")

 

[johnny karate]

I just don't feel like playing this partisan game. This isn't a mystery, it's not shrouded in confusion. In the words of James Carville (yes I had to look it up) "The Economy, Stupid".

Dems have been in control for four years, and to the average person, everything in their bank account has gotten worse. So they swap out the party that hasn't been effective in their eyes, and will try the other for a while. But nobody expects everything to magically turn around in a week. Which is why I said give it a bit, and if people's ability to afford their basic lives hasn't improved, they'll be pissed at Republicans too.

Macroeconomic data in no way supports the idea that things have "gotten worse" for the average person. Quite the contrary.

Regardless, Trump isn't going to do anything to improve the economy and has already admitted as much. Trump voters don't care. They don't care because it was never about the economy. It was about whatever right wing propaganda told them it was about.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Macroeconomic data in no way supports the idea that things have "gotten worse" for the average person. Quite the contrary.

Regardless, Trump isn't going to do anything to improve the economy and has already admitted as much. Trump voters don't care. They don't care because it was never about the economy. It was about whatever right wing propaganda told them it was about.

Let's try this another way @Emily's Cat : Which of the many executive orders and actions Trump has undertaken in the past week are the ones primarily intended to help the bottom line of working Americans?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Let's try this another way @Emily's Cat : Which of the many executive orders and actions Trump has undertaken in the past week are the ones primarily intended to help the bottom line of working Americans?

Of the three they've issued so far, none.

I think you think you're arguing with me, as in you think I think Trump is going to actually do something to help. I don't. All I did was provide my understanding of voter behavior.

 

[johnny karate]

Of the three they've issued so far, none.

I think you think you're arguing with me, as in you think I think Trump is going to actually do something to help. I don't. All I did was provide my understanding of voter behavior.

Trump has so far issued at least 60 executive orders and actions. Anyone interested in being factual could have easily discovered this with a five-second Google search.

 

[Tero]

I just don't feel like playing this partisan game. This isn't a mystery, it's not shrouded in confusion. In the words of James Carville (yes I had to look it up) "The Economy, Stupid".

Dems have been in control for four years, and to the average person, everything in their bank account has gotten worse. So they swap out the party that hasn't been effective in their eyes, and will try the other for a while. But nobody expects everything to magically turn around in a week. Which is why I said give it a bit, and if people's ability to afford their basic lives hasn't improved, they'll be pissed at Republicans too.

That was not Democrats and that was not 4 years. The GOP and the Supreme Court have made corporations all powerful and MAGA folk poor for 30 years. Wages are stuck. Google Robert Reich if you do not believe me.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Of the three they've issued so far, none.

I think you think you're arguing with me, as in you think I think Trump is going to actually do something to help. I don't. All I did was provide my understanding of voter behavior.

johnny karate beat me to the point that it's a *lot* more than three. And out of the dozens of executive orders and actions Trump has issued thus far, you can think of none that are aimed at actually improving the economy. That's okay, neither can I. In fact, some of his actions may already be having a negative impact. In spite of this, Trump's numbers in favorability/approval polls have not dropped by a statistically significant amount.

And no, I don't think that you think Trump is going to help the economy; I think that you want *me* to think that most folk who voted for Trump did so because of the economy. But I don't believe that, as indicated by their non-response to the observation that he is, in fact, doing SFA about the GDP or the CPI, even as he works overtime to further the racist transphobic evil poohead agenda.

Voters have seen Trump express his priorities via his actions, and yet his support has not wavered. Said support seems not to have been motivated by a desire to improve the economy.

 

[Tero]

Trump approval is dropping a percentage a week. Soon down to 40%. next year below Biden 37%. Maybe 30% if Trump breaks government so it takes 4 years to repair.

 

[arthwollipot]

johnny karate beat me to the point that it's a *lot* more than three. And out of the dozens of executive orders and actions Trump has issued thus far, you can think of none that are aimed at actually improving the economy. That's okay, neither can I. In fact, some of his actions may already be having a negative impact. In spite of this, Trump's numbers in favorability/approval polls have not dropped by a statistically significant amount.

So far he's been doing exactly what he said he was going to do. Except bring down the price of eggs.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

According to Greg Palast, the Democrats didn't lose, they just had to deal with massive voter suppression and robbed Harris of 3,565,000 votes from provisional ballot challenges, clerical errors, vigilante voter challenges etc, all of which not-so-coincidentally targeted minorities and young people. So there should be another addition to "what did the Dems do wrong?" poll--namely, they didn't do enough to counter voter supression tactics.
(from Thom Harmtann's program)
Harris Won!

To quote the Trumpers: we have to vote in numbers too large to rig.
Dems have always had a systematic disadvantage due to demographics and socioeconomic opportunities.

There clearly wasn't the will to confront voter suppression efforts, so the only question now is: what will Dems do differently in 2 years?

 

[Tero]

Failed at the art of the bull ◊◊◊◊

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 10

 

[stanfr]

Failed at the art of the bull ◊◊◊◊ View attachment 58764

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 10

That's apparently an old version of the meme--the new one has Rupert almost hidden by a stack of about 10,000 cookies...

 

[Emily's Cat]

johnny karate beat me to the point that it's a *lot* more than three.

As of yesterday, when I posted, only three were published on the Federal Register.

And out of the dozens of executive orders and actions Trump has issued thus far,

As of today, there are 14 published.

you can think of none that are aimed at actually improving the economy.

Explicitly? No. Four of them are targeted at increasing our energy production and lowering the price of energy in the US, which affects the economy. Two are aimed at reducing government expenditures, whether you think government costs affect the economy or not is up to you.

That's okay, neither can I. In fact, some of his actions may already be having a negative impact. In spite of this, Trump's numbers in favorability/approval polls have not dropped by a statistically significant amount.

And no, I don't think that you think Trump is going to help the economy; I think that you want *me* to think that most folk who voted for Trump did so because of the economy. But I don't believe that, as indicated by their non-response to the observation that he is, in fact, doing SFA about the GDP or the CPI, even as he works overtime to further the racist transphobic evil poohead agenda.

Voters have seen Trump express his priorities via his actions, and yet his support has not wavered. Said support seems not to have been motivated by a desire to improve the economy.

Look, if you want to hold the opinion that because Trump hasn't fixed the economy by fiat on day one, and hasn't magically introduced EOs that transform the economy within the first week then it just must not matter to anyone who voted for him... well, I can't dissuade you from holding shallow thoughtless views.

You have a belief. Your belief is used as a filter for every bit of information you receive. Your belief has led you to assume that those who don't hold your belief are all evil.

I can't argue you out of devoutly held, deep-seated, entrenched beliefs. You'll either accept alternative views and give them reasonable consideration, or you won't.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Trump approval is dropping a percentage a week. Soon down to 40%. next year below Biden 37%. Maybe 30% if Trump breaks government so it takes 4 years to repair.

EVERY president's approval has been getting lower on average since Reagan. Why do you think this is surprising?

 

[Tero]

EVERY president's approval has been getting lower on average since Reagan. Why do you think this is surprising?

None of it is. You claimed Trump has support. His support will only go as far as GOP in congress. His money can derail all their careers.

 

[stanfr]

EVERY president's approval has been getting lower on average since Reagan. Why do you think this is surprising?

Funny how you interpret that as an expression of surprise--I interpret it as an expected result and optimistic!

 

[3point14]

I think this is relevant...

Cont: Post in thread 'Musk buys Twitter II'

Jan 29, 2025

Correct. The plan was always to bring them back in Spring 2025. This is just more of Trump and Musk dancing for the cameras.

Well, dunno. They'e not stranded in the sense there is no plan to get them back, but the original plan was for a 10 day visit -

"The two astronauts are Nasa’s Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, who were blasted into space in Boeing’s Starliner capsule in June, arriving at the International Space Station where they were expected to stay for just 10 days.
Technical issues, such as thrusters that did not work fully, delayed the duo’s return. The spacecraft...

• GlennB

• 

 

[Emily's Cat]

None of it is. You claimed Trump has support.

I observed that Trump has support. Obviously, given that Trump won this last election and a lot of people seem pretty damned happy about it. I also opined that I think part of why Trump won is because the economy is sucktastic for a whole, whole, whole lot of people - and whether it's reasonable or not, they jumped ship from the party that was in power when it all went to hell to a different one. That different party might not help, but it's something different from what they had.

I get tired of trying to just talk about why people do the things they do, with some consideration for basic psychology, value rankings, and motivations... and being met with this constant wall of malignant assumptions and arguments against windmills.

 

[Tero]

Trump ideas are not that popular.

Trump’s approval rating dips after rush of executive orders, poll finds

Poll shows disapproval of immigration policies and Gulf of Mexico renaming

www.theguardian.com

Seventy per cent of respondents oppose renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America, an action Trump ordered on his first day in office. Only 25% of respondents supported the idea, with the rest unsure.

About 59% of respondents, including 30% of Republicans, opposed Trump’s moves to end federal efforts to promote the hiring of women and members of racial minority groups. When asked specifically about Trump’s order to close all federal diversity, equity and inclusion, or DEI, offices, respondents were more evenly divided, with 51% opposed and 44% in favor, largely along partisan lines.

Support for expanding fossil fuel drilling – another early policy change in the new administration – was highly concentrated in Trump’s party, with 76% of Republicans backing the easing of drilling restrictions and 81% of Democrats opposing it. About 59% of respondents said they opposed the United States pulling out of the Paris climate accords.

Public views also split along partisan lines for the billionaire businessman Elon Musk, one of Trump’s most prominent allies. While 75% of Republicans in the survey said they had a favorable view of Musk, 90% of Democrats said they had an unfavorable view.

 

[arthwollipot]

Well, we know now that all trans people have to do is to put "Gulf Of..." before their name for Republicans to accept their name change.