What did Democrats do wrong?

[Thermal]

The Dems couldn't it get together at game time, like they haven't been able to for generations. They were exactly like they've been in recent history. What they got "wrong" was to continue being exactly who they are.

Dems in general are a better choice, but they are really really not good at putting one individual up as representative of who and what they are, because they represent a much wider cross-section of the people. Republicans represent like two kinds of very homogenous voters, the Ayn Rand types and the God and Guns type.

 

[Donal]

They're never going to find that person so long as they keep apologizing for being Democrats. They need everything to be so perfect and so focus group tested and need to appeal to most people without offending the corproate backers.

Meanwhile, the Republicans run a stupid, slovenly, lazy, lying, bigoted, loudmouth soon-to-be octogenerian who gets praised for saying stupid ◊◊◊◊.

 

[Thermal]

 

[d4m10n]

So does it make a lot of sense to say "what Dems got wrong is to not have been Republicans?"

It would make somewhat more sense to say that the Dems have moved towards the activist left position since the Obama years.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1857459052738994431

 

[Thermal]

It would make somewhat more sense to say that the Dems have moved towards the activist left position since the Obama years.

Again...yeah. That's what the Democrats *are*. The red guys moved farther to their right extreme, and the blue ones farther to their left. The foot shufflers in the middle are by definition not part of the larger party's dominant philosophy. The wider culture shifts more to the extremes, and it's reflected in the major party positions.That's not doing anything wrong. That's what voters elected (with the caveat that once in power, they don't much give a ◊◊◊◊ what the voters actually want, as long as they keep getting the votes). If you compromise the main party positions to nab the foot shufflers, you risk losing chunks of your main voting block.

 

[Thermal]

Duporamma. Mobile version getting to be a pain

 

[d4m10n]

There's no evidence "wokeness" had any affect on the election.

Fact check: False.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854975555147624793

 

[Donal]

No, its true and you're also demonstrating one of my other points. "rather than helping the middle class". That is the right-winger framing. "Kamala Harris is too liberal" came in at +4 for all voters and +1 for al lswing voters. If "wokeness" was that big a deal by itself, shouldn't that be higher? What you, the media, and DINOs did was help push the right-wing talking point that it was either protect transgender rights or help the middle class. As if they are mutally exclusive concepts.

 

[d4m10n]

No, its true and you're also demonstrating one of my other points. "rather than helping the middle class". That is the right-winger framing.

The framing was chosen by a research firm dedicated to electing Democratic politicians in order to test whether that particular messaging was effective in the closing days of the campaign. It was, whether we like it or not.

What you, the media, and DINOs did was help push the right-wing talking point that it was either protect transgender rights or help the middle class.

Why are you coming after me here? Feels like an attempt to distract from the facts via personal attack. If you can find any examples of me pushing the "right-wing talking point that it was either protect transgender rights or help the middle class" while the election was happening, I'll eat my hat. Even now, I'm pointing out that swing voters actually cared about it, not saying that they should have.

Trans issues are just one proxy for a whole host of issues which are of great concern to symbolic capitalists and the opprobrium entrepreneurs who guide opinion in elite circles, but not of great concern to normies and working folks. You could just as easily pick any cutting edge issue from the basket of identity politics, and the Dems will seem similarly out of touch with median public opinion.

 

[Donal]

The framing was chosen by a research firm dedicated to electing Democratic politicians in order to test whether that particular messaging was effective in the closing days of the campaign. It was, whether we like it or not.

Oh, consultants chose it. Well, that makes ◊◊◊◊ all difference. It is true and irrelevant

Why are you coming after me here? Feels like an attempt to distract from the facts via personal attack. If you can find any examples of me pushing the "right-wing talking point that it was either protect transgender rights or help the middle class" while the election happening, I'll eat my hat. Even now, I'm pointing out that swing voters actually cared about it, not saying that they should have.

That's literally what the statement was. It wasn't "democrats cared too much about social issues". It was specifically framed to make it an A/B test.

this wasn't "She was too woke" it was "Democrats didn't do enough to help the middle class."

 

[d4m10n]

this wasn't "She was too woke" it was "Democrats didn't do enough to help the middle class."

No, it was that they didn't help the middle class enough because they are focused on other matters.

I don't think there is some objective method to prove this claim true or false, but a decent chunk of the day one EOs were directed at protecting "people of color and others who have been historically underserved and marginalized," such as Dreamers, Liberians, LGBTQ+ persons, etc.

 

[Random]

No, it was that they didn't help the middle class enough because they are focused on other matters.

No, it was that voters thought that they didn't help the middle class enough because they are focused on other matters. A different thing entirely.

Yes, the Harris campaign should have realized that that was what the voters were thinking and made adjustments, but there was lots of Biden/Harris policy beyond trans rights. It was Trump that made trans rights the centerpiece of the Harris campaign.

 

[d4m10n]

No, it was that voters thought that they didn't help the middle class enough because they are focused on other matters.

As I said "I'm pointing out that swing voters actually cared about it, not saying that they should have."

It was Trump that made trans rights the centerpiece of the Harris campaign.

Trans issues are just one proxy for a whole host of issues which are of great concern to symbolic capitalists and the opprobrium entrepreneurs who guide opinion in elite circles, but not of great concern to normies and working folks. You could just as easily pick any cutting edge issue from the basket of identity politics, and the Dems will seem similarly out of touch with median public opinion.

 

[Thermal]

You could just as easily pick any cutting edge issue from the basket of identity politics, and the Dems will seem similarly out of touch with median public opinion.

Presumably the Dems were less interested in the swing voters than in reminding those millions to vote that couldnt be bothered, but did in 2020? She'd have won if they were roused from their beauty rest.

 

[Thermal]

Weird that the OP poll shows too much transgender stuff in the lead, followed by America not ready for progressive women. In my fair state and in public speaking, I didn't hear VP Harris saying much of anything about trans folk, and in 2016 Americans, by popular vote, showed that they were perfectly ready and willing for one of them uppity women folk to sit it the Oval Office.

 

[Brainster]

Weird that the OP poll shows too much transgender stuff in the lead, followed by America not ready for progressive women. In my fair state and in public speaking, I didn't hear VP Harris saying much of anything about trans folk....

I'm guessing you don't live in a battleground state? Fully one-third of the GOP ads here down the stretch featured a clip of Kamala boasting about how she had fixed things so that the State of California paid for gender reassignment surgery for prisoners, and her response to a questionnaire where she stated she supported government-paid gender reassignment surgery for illegal immigrants. Of course these were positions Harris had taken in 2019, when she was trying to get left of Bernie Sanders, and ones that she regretted (whether politically or otherwise) this time around.



I voted for Harris, but that ad was an absolute killer.

 

[Thermal]

I'm guessing you don't live in a battleground state?

Nah. Blue wall NJ. Her ads here were mostly on Philadelphia PA stations, though, so technically battleground state in terms of audience

Fully one-third of the GOP ads here down the stretch featured a clip of Kamala boasting about how she had fixed things so that the State of California paid for gender reassignment surgery for prisoners, and her response to a questionnaire where she stated she supported government-paid gender reassignment surgery for illegal immigrants. Of course these were positions Harris had taken in 2019, when she was trying to get left of Bernie Sanders, and ones that she regretted (whether politically or otherwise) this time around.



I voted for Harris, but that ad was an absolute killer.

Yeah, that was a weird position to take, talking about free reassignment operations for criminals. Unless it was supposed to allay fears of bio males in female prisons by doing ye Olde slice and dice?

 

[dirtywick]

i was in a swing state and literally every other trump ad was either about mexican immigrant rapists or trans surgeries.

maybe somebody could link a youtube clip of an ad that wasn't about that stuff. i think you'd have a hard time finding one.

 

[theprestige]

What I'm getting from this thread is the overwhelming impression that the Democrats did nothing wrong, and Kamala Harris is president-elect.

 

[TragicMonkey]

They call them "races" for a reason: the contestants all run as fast as they can, and whoever gets there first wins. That doesn't mean the second-place runner did anything wrong, it just means they weren't as fast. Lacking sufficient speed isn't a "mistake".

eta: I suspect the reason certain people want to harp on this subject is because it's not enough for them that their guy won, they want Harris to not only have lost but to be to blame for her loss. They want her to be culpable. It's never enough with these people.