What did Democrats do wrong?

[d4m10n]

It was a single case about a teacher trying to hide behind religion.

It was a single case of pushback against a policy implemented and enforced by public school districts.

If that's what you're hanging your hat on...

Not sure what you mean by hanging my hat here, since I didn't actually make an argument.

You asked (#1,537) for an example of power exercised to enforce the ideals represented by woke symbols; I gave you such an example. When any public sector employee can be reprimanded, suspended, or fired for failing to use words in a politically correct way, that is an exercise of power on behalf of ideology. The only question left is what ideology is being enforced as a matter of public policy. You may well deny that the shift from using pronouns as designators of biological sex to designators of aspirational sex doesn't originate from the "woke left" but why should anyone take that denial seriously?

 

[Tero]

What did MAGA do wrong? Watched Fox News

They are getting a taste of their own medicine now!

Vance: If you can survive Greta Thunberg for 10 years you can survive Elon Musk for a few months. Listening to news, Democrats and MAGA vote...

esapolitics.blogspot.com

 

[Donal]

It was a single case of pushback against a policy implemented and enforced by public school districts.

Not sure what you mean by hanging my hat here, since I didn't actually make an argument.

You asked (#1,537) for an example of power exercised to enforce the ideals represented by woke symbols; I gave you such an example. When any public sector employee can be reprimanded, suspended, or fired for failing to use words in a politically correct way, that is an exercise of power on behalf of ideology. The only question left is what ideology is being enforced as a matter of public policy. You may well deny that the shift from using pronouns as designators of biological sex to designators of aspirational sex doesn't originate from the "woke left" but why should anyone take that denial seriously?

You gave the lamest, most limp wristed example I can imagine. Where are the people going to prison? Where are the people being tear gassed? Where's the real power of the state being leveraged on the "unwoke" to justify welcoming Nazis?

 

[Tero]

Donal, it was a 5 second clip on Fox News.

Proof of wide abuse by wokism!

 

[Donal]

He tweeted about it! What more can you ask for?!

 

[d4m10n]

You gave the lamest, most limp wristed example I can imagine.

Don't move the goalposts and then blame the kicker.

You didn't ask for a robustly masculine, presumptively heteronormative example of power being exercised. You didn't ask for examples of people going to prison or being tear gassed, you didn't ask about physical force at all. You asked merely for an exercise of power in support of a specific ideological agenda. I could give you a dozen more but they would all be of the same ilk, that is, employees being threatened with job-related sanctions for failing to toe the correct line using the approved language.

 

[Donal]

I asked for a an actual use of power for "wokeness". The context on the conversation was with the embrace of far right authoritarians as a response to said power. My contention is it is nonsense and that the real problem was the failures of neoliberalism to address changing social and economic circumstances. Mainly because neoliberalism either caused or exasperated many of those issues.

The fact that "don't be ◊◊◊◊◊◊ to your coworkers and students" is too far for some of you says a lot more about you than it does the "woke".

 

[johnny karate]

Let me fix that for you: "Big Pharma backed, science denying trans ideology is icky, that´s why the Nazis won"

Saying that the people who just put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health are anti-trans because of science is monumentally stupid and dishonest.

 

[Garrison]

Saying that the people who just put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health are anti-trans because of science is monumentally stupid and dishonest.

Well to be fair monumentally stupid and dishonest did win the election.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Flags aren’t a form of power, they are a token of allegiance.

People have power, and they use it to further or protect their allegiances.

Meh. The flags and pronouns aren't direct power... they're the things that people are required to give lip-service to in order to avoid the modern social equivalent of an auto-de-fe. They're the 21st century rosary and catechism, without which one can be suspected of heresy and condemned to torture until repentance is accepted by the inquisitors.

 

[Donal]

They are also things that you can get major teenage edgelord cred by dismissing.

 

[johnny karate]

I doubt that what Democrats did wrong was fail to compare their opponents to Nazis frequently enough.

That's where you are wrong, the only thing they did wrong was fail to compare their opponents to NAZI's and Fascists nearly enough.

Happy to send both of you a list of direct connections the current administration has to Nazis and white supremacists. Or you could just actively pay attention.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You gave the lamest, most limp wristed example I can imagine. Where are the people going to prison? Where are the people being tear gassed? Where's the real power of the state being leveraged on the "unwoke" to justify welcoming Nazis?

Oh puhlease. I'm so tired of this constant need to refer to the other political party as well as anyone who commits the unforgiveable sin of not sufficiently hating the other party as "nazis". It's abhorrent hyperbole that whitewashes the atrocities committed by the actual nozi party just so you can score some internet points.

If these are actual nazis, as you repeatedly assert... where's the concentration camps, death marches, forced relocations, property seizure, and straight-up persecution?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Don't move the goalposts and then blame the kicker.

You didn't ask for a robustly masculine, presumptively heteronormative example of power being exercised. You didn't ask for examples of people going to prison or being tear gassed, you didn't ask about physical force at all. You asked merely for an exercise of power in support of a specific ideological agenda. I could give you a dozen more but they would all be of the same ilk, that is, employees being threatened with job-related sanctions for failing to toe the correct line using the approved language.

Or actually being fired and losing their income for failure to repeat the mantra.

 

[Emily's Cat]

They are also things that you can get major teenage edgelord cred by dismissing.

I dunno. Seems like there's a lot of social cache to be had by some people when all they have to do is call people nazis and bigots for failing to adhere to this religion. You know, like what you keep doing?

 

[Donal]

Oh puhlease. I'm so tired of this constant need to refer to the other political party as well as anyone who commits the unforgiveable sin of not sufficiently hating the other party as "nazis".

This is in reference to people actually espousing beliefs and utilizing rhetoric in line with National Socialist Party of 1930s Germany. and I'm not calling them Nazis. I'm calling them collaborators.

It's abhorrent hyperbole that whitewashes the atrocities committed by the actual nozi party just so you can score some internet points.

Off, more of the right-wing projection. Any

If these are actual nazis, as you repeatedly assert... where's the concentration camps, death marches, forced relocations, property seizure, and straight-up persecution?

You know they didn't do all that Day 1, right? Like, Hitler didn't become chancellor and say "OK, Jews into the box cars! Get the ovens prepped!"

And when you are presented examples of early Nazi activity that liens up with what these groups are doing today, your kind dismiss it. And if they were sending "others" to gas chambers, you'd be OK with that too.

 

[johnny karate]

Or actually being fired and losing their income for failure to repeat the mantra.

A) "Language policing" has long been a thing in the workplace for the overall benefit of everyone because no one wants to work with an ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

B) Tens of thousands of people are currently losing their job thanks to the Trump administration.

This remains the weakest of weak sauce concern trolling and is transparently disingenuous.

 

[d4m10n]

I asked for...an actual use of power for "wokeness".

And I gave you an example of one.

The fact that "don't be ◊◊◊◊◊◊ to your coworkers and students" is too far for some of you says a lot more about you than it does the "woke".

Where did I say it went too far?

The context on the conversation was with the embrace of far right authoritarians as a response to said power.

I reject your attempted reframing of the OP topic.

 

[Donal]

I was directly responding to another comment. I already gave me response to the OP on like page 1 or 2

 

[TomB]

Just as soon as you stop proving me right.

God, must every thread migrate to the trans issue?

I think there is a lot of nuance in the stance that the majority of Democrats take on the issue, which they failed or were afraid to express.
This of course, gave the Republicans (who themselves were afraid to express any nuance on the issue) a target they could inflate into a much more prominent issue.

I base this on the observation that most of the conservative people I know and most of the liberal people I know are actually in pretty close agreement on the issue. And that point of agreement is not at either extreme.

This probably was something that the Republicans were able to use as a wedge issue. You don't have to think the Republicans were correct on merits in order to recognize that. I'm not sure how you fight that, but it's probably not by saying everyone who doesn't come down on the "trans side" on every context is an evil bigot. Hell, I'm not even sure the majority of trans people come down on the "trans side" in every context. (Hence the quotes around "trans side." I'm not actually sure what the "trans side" really is because they are not a monolith.)