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What Bernie accomplished was still significant

Travis said:
But it did resonate. He wasn't an afterthought. The people looked at what he was proposing and a huge numbers thought "hey, they ain't so bad!"
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Maybe. I think a yuuge part of it is that the other candidates were so awful. People claim that Obama was like Santa Claus in his first campaign, promising free stuff. Bernie has a similar schtick, except more of it. That's how many people see it, in my opinion.

He's also a personable guy, seems cool, young people like him. I like him. But if the Dems offered even a remotely better candidate than Hillary, then we wouldn't have heard much about Bernie at all. Even she's beating him.

Bernie and Donald both only exist because that's how bad the real candidates are.
 
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mgidm86 said:
if the Dems offered even a remotely better candidate than Hillary, then we wouldn't have heard much about Bernie at all. Even she's beating him.

Bernie and Donald both only exist because that's how bad the real candidates are.
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No, the reason both Bernie and Donald exist is the same - Republicans.

Republicans illegally invaded Iraq and tanked the economy. Republicans gave tax breaks to the 1% and told us it would trickle down. Republicans did nothing about illegal immigration because they like cheap labor. Republicans denied Global Warming and made us a laughing stock with the rest of the World.

Republicans have been trying to destroy Hillary since forever, and many liberals have fallen for their smears. Republicans constantly bash Obama, obstruct him at every turn and belittle his accomplishments, causing liberals to think that he hasn't lived up to his promises.

Bernie exists because many liberals think that 'establishment' Democrats aren't progressive enough. They are wrong. The real reason the country isn't moving forward is Republicans.

Furthermore, Republicans have even destroyed support for their own party - by careering hard right, refusing to be reasonable and doing nothing useful. Lower and middle class conservatives are sick of the Republican establishment.

Trump exists because he represents the republican party that people want, not what the GOP has been trying to push down their throats.

Imagine where we would be now if Republicans hadn't wreaked havoc over the past 15 years. People like Bernie and Donald would be of no interest to voters because the country wouldn't be in such a mess.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
No, the reason both Bernie and Donald exist is the same - Republicans.

Republicans illegally invaded Iraq and tanked the economy. Republicans gave tax breaks to the 1% and told us it would trickle down. Republicans did nothing about illegal immigration because they like cheap labor. Republicans denied Global Warming and made us a laughing stock with the rest of the World.

Republicans have been trying to destroy Hillary since forever, and many liberals have fallen for their smears. Republicans constantly bash Obama, obstruct him at every turn and belittle his accomplishments, causing liberals to think that he hasn't lived up to his promises.

Bernie exists because many liberals think that 'establishment' Democrats aren't progressive enough. They are wrong. The real reason the country isn't moving forward is Republicans.

Furthermore, Republicans have even destroyed support for their own party - by careering hard right, refusing to be reasonable and doing nothing useful. Lower and middle class conservatives are sick of the Republican establishment.

Trump exists because he represents the republican party that people want, not what the GOP has been trying to push down their throats.

Imagine where we would be now if Republicans hadn't wreaked havoc over the past 15 years. People like Bernie and Donald would be of no interest to voters because the country wouldn't be in such a mess.
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And who has failed to stop the Republicans from doing all that? The Democrats. Whether the party fights the good fight or not is irrelevant if they continually lose at it.
 
TragicMonkey said:
And who has failed to stop the Republicans from doing all that? The Democrats. Whether the party fights the good fight or not is irrelevant if they continually lose at it.
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I agree. It's not enough to just fight for what you believe in, you have to win - even if you can't get everything you want. Unfortunately some liberals seem to think the opposite is true - that if you can't have it all your own way then nobody should get anything. Because staying pure is more important than winning - an attitude which Bernie has fostered.

What Bernie has accomplished may be significant, but in what way? Time will tell whether the 'good' outweighs the damage he has done to the Democratic Party. It's hard to win when one of your own is batting against you...
 
Fudbucker said:
You do, however, get quite a lot for handing over a list of millions of small donors.
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Whoa! Have you thought about this? If Facebook wants to sell our data, we all go nuts. Bernie's going to trade off my name and contact details? Did Bernie put those details in his "terms and conditions"?
 
Just to be clear, that wasn't meant to be a "gotcha", but an honest-to-Ed "have you thought about this" moment. Because I hadn't.

One of the underlooked things in the discussions of what Bernie has to offer - 'cuz there really isn't that much any longer - is that he has the ability to raise a hundred million dollars from the typical Bernie supporter, IF they are really that loyal. I certainly didn't envision him just turning over the list, but rather felt that he was offering to get out and do the campaigning and fund-raising as part of the Dem effort.
 
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