What are these WW2 planes?

[icebear]

Last night I was watching an episode of "Secrets of War", and I see this brief scene.... (check minute 5:44 to 5:47)



Three aircraft sweep through the scene dropping bombs, but what are they?

They appear to be...

Single engine
High-wing
Retracted undercarriage

I thought I knew most of the aircraft used by all sides in WW2, but I have no idea what these are?


Any clues anyone?

The planes appear to be PBYs. Wingspans indicate bombers and not fighters and the Catalina was the only bomber we had with the wing on a structure over the fuselage like that.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Catalina was twin engine, no sign of engines on those wings.

Plus it would be strange to use a Flying Boat designed for maritime patrol to play at being a bomber for the Army Air Force.
Even stranger to see a number of them together.

 

[steve s]

Catalina was twin engine, no sign of engines on those wings.

Also, the PBYs had an enormous wingspan.
http://militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/consolidated-pby-catalina.jpg

The planes in the video don't appear to have such long wings.


Steve S

 

[Hammy]

It's just difficult to see clearly as to what type aircraft they are.

Maybe a Cessna 210

 

[SUSpilot]

Of course, if this footage really is of war games, and the bombs are simulated (already planted in the ground) then there is no need for these aircraft to actually be bombers, or combat aircraft of any kind.

A light trainer is all that is required to simulate AG attack for the troops on the ground. There are any number of contemporaneous high-wing training aircraft that would fill the bill.


Cessna L-19 Bird Dog
Aeronica Grasshopper
Taylorcraft L-2
The Piper L-4 grasshopper
Piper J3 Cub

Also, if its an exercise/war games and not WW2 footage, then that will extend the possible time period from wartime to a few years either side.

Maybe the Louisiana exercises just prior to WW2?

 

[smartcooky]

Maybe the Louisiana exercises just prior to WW2?

Thanks mate. This just might have led me to the right answer...

http://replicainscale.blogspot.co.nz/2010/04/brief-message-guns-go-go-neat-idea-for.html

"Let me state right off the bat that I know next-to-nothing about this photograph, except that the aircraft shown was involved in the Louisiana War Games during 1941 while the type was undergoing evaluation by the Army. It's a Piper J-3 "Cub", and is a civil aircraft under evaluation; note the partially painted-over NC number on the starboard wing. A highly-sophisticated refueling system is in use while a troop of probably-bemused horse cavalry trot past. A Colonel named Dwight Eisenhower made several flights in the "Cub" during these maneuvers. Of particular interest is the grasshopper painted in yellow on the side of the fuselage. "

 

[Sockor]

But the planes in the video have parasol wing^WP separate from the body of the aircraft. That piper does not.

 

[Reactor drone]

But the planes in the video have parasol wing^WP separate from the body of the aircraft. That piper does not.

They're probably Cessna Bird dogs. The wing on top of the glazed canopy is a better match for the parasol wing and the thin Cessna landing gear is more likely do disappear when the exposure is blown out.

There's a good shot of a post war one from the rear quarter half way down this page,

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3314827/1.html

 

[I Ratant]

Thanks mate. This just might have led me to the right answer...

http://replicainscale.blogspot.co.nz/2010/04/brief-message-guns-go-go-neat-idea-for.html

[qimg]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GbPcI30qhvQ/S8xyrATH7oI/AAAAAAAAAv4/hiIs7wg3-MU/s320/J-3.jpg[/qimg]

"Let me state right off the bat that I know next-to-nothing about this photograph, except that the aircraft shown was involved in the Louisiana War Games during 1941 while the type was undergoing evaluation by the Army. It's a Piper J-3 "Cub", and is a civil aircraft under evaluation; note the partially painted-over NC number on the starboard wing. A highly-sophisticated refueling system is in use while a troop of probably-bemused horse cavalry trot past. A Colonel named Dwight Eisenhower made several flights in the "Cub" during these maneuvers. Of particular interest is the grasshopper painted in yellow on the side of the fuselage. "

.
I saw those manuvers! Dad was in the NJNG and we were living at Fort Jackson for awhile. I vaguely recall some low-winged plane, possibly a P-66.. or coulda been a BT-13... That's a loooooooooong time ago!

 

[smartcooky]

They're probably Cessna Bird dogs. The wing on top of the glazed canopy is a better match for the parasol wing and the thin Cessna landing gear is more likely do disappear when the exposure is blown out.

There's a good shot of a post war one from the rear quarter half way down this page,

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3314827/1.html

That could certainly look like a parasol wing in a poorly defined image.

The other thing is that the underside of the Bird-dog fuselage appears to be curved, which is a little like the planes in the video.

 

[steve s]

The other thing is that the underside of the Bird-dog fuselage appears to be curved, which is a little like the planes in the video.

That's what made me think Hammy's guess of the Curtiss O-52 Owl may have been the right one. It's got a curved underbelly, but now I think it's a bit too beefy to be the right one. The Cessna is more slender.

Steve S

 

[Hammy]

^^^ Yes the Curtiss owl does look to beefy to be the one. The Cessna o-1 didn't fly until 1949. Very well could be a J-3 cub, they just look to fast the way they pass overhead for a plane that cruises at 65 mph.

I'm thinking L-5 Stinson but the first flight of the L-5 was 1942.

 

[steve s]

The Cessna o-1 didn't fly until 1949.

Well that throws a wrench into the mess. Doesn't really look like a Cub to me.

Steve S

 

[Hammy]

Yeah doesn't look like a J-3 to me either. If I remember correctly Stinson had some aircraft that used the same airframe as the L-5 in the late 30's but with less horsepower, if they were used by the military or not I don't know.

 

[sowhat]

Grew up during WWII studying aircraft profiles to "Know your enemy".
My immediate gut reaction to the clip was PBY, or at least the trailing plane.
My next quick impression was a glider being pulled by two helicopters?
Not going with that one. Just passing on my reaction.

The clip is way too vague and out of context. Can't even be sure who's bombing who.
If it is for real, I would have to vote for the Storch. That bomb doesn't look any bigger than the ones they dropped from the cockpits in WWI.

I can see you have a soft spot for this show, but my impression is that the people who find these clips are often more interested in effect than accuracy. I presume they get paid for having some kind of credentials.
I'm sure all of you have seen some grossly inaccurate stuff in other "documentaries".
Drives me crazy.

 

[steve s]

my impression is that the people who find these clips are often more interested in effect than accuracy.

I've seen shows on the Military Channel that were laughable. One show about the development of the Me262 kept showing clips of the Me163 Komet. The two don't look anything alike.

Another show about the B-24 kept showing shots of the B-25. Presumably they were fooled by the double tail, but you'd think having only half as many engines would have been a tip-off.

Steve S

 

[sowhat]

I've seen shows on the Military Channel that were laughable. One show about the development of the Me262 kept showing clips of the Me163 Komet. The two don't look anything alike.

Another show about the B-24 kept showing shots of the B-25. Presumably they were fooled by the double tail, but you'd think having only half as many engines would have been a tip-off.

Steve S

Well They both start with "Me" or "B". Isn't that good enough for you? Picky, picky.
I hear you.

 

[sowhat]

Just reviewed the vid again and following discussion. I'm kind of back to my first reaction.
The long flat wing up on a pylon, the upward curved tail and the bulbous forward fuselage say PBY to me. As far as size goes, its hard to determine. If these are manuvers in LA, we are on the Gulf. These could be army PBYs. The flaw in my argument is that I can't make out two engines on the upper wing. I can't get that closer resolution showing single engine types so I guess I'm out. Oh well.

 

[sowhat]

I'm usually pretty good at identifying WWII planes, but i don't have a clue. I tried to view it frame by frame by that doesn't help. They have a high-wing layout.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_81545264b499f2fca.jpg[/qimg]

Steve S

I'm looking at your still as posted here, and that last plane just screams PBY at me, so I'm going with that, engines or not!

 

[Corsair 115]

I'm looking at your still as posted here, and that last plane just screams PBY at me, so I'm going with that, engines or not!

After comparing the video in the OP with other videos of PBYs on YouTube, it's not a Catalina. The ratio of the wingspan to the fuselage is wrong for it to be a PBY.