What about this crop circle?

[I Ratant]

If that makes you feel better. I really do wonder why you are posting here, which is why I asked. Are you trying to open my eyes? Find fellow true-believers?

.
A community service.
The true-believers that post here make for lots and lots of wasted space.
My goodness.. this thread...

 

[Limbo]

If you put everybody who disagree with you on ignore, coming here will soon be a lonely experience.

It's not that he disagrees. It's that his posts have become more and more offensive to me. I have an itchy trigger finger.

Most people realise that their eyes/brain is really good at deceiving them and that a card trick is just a trick, no matter how good.

The rest have a problem.

That's what you think.

 

[cyborg]

Limbo: you don't watch Countdown do you?

 

[Limbo]

Nope.

 

[cyborg]

Maybe give it a go:

At least try using a challenging knot of letters rather than a series that easily lends itself to finding other words - like this sentence - because of the commonality of lexemes you are going to find in almost any collection of words.

Of course if you insist on going to look for it some people are going to start putting it there for their own sick amusement wherever they can find a way of convoluting a general sentence to accommodate it.

 

[Limbo]

Stray Cat, can we go over a few more things before this thread dies?

1. Why were you a UFO believer in the first place?

2. Whats the difference between a woo and a bleever?

3. Could you summarize for me what Jim says about poltergeists? Why is that word in the subtitle?

4. About those fantastic claims. Has it occurred to you that missing time could be involved?

5. Does it still look like word salad to you?

6. Ever talked to people who claim to be eyewitnesses of crop circle formation in connection with BOLs?

7. Ever make circles with 'woo' or 'bleever' circlemakers like "Danny" or Peter or Matthew? Ever been out with circlemakers who hoped to experience something paranormal in the field? Do clicks develop in the circlemaking community? Is there a woo click and a skeptic click? Is there a click that doesn't give a **** about the animosity between circlemakers and researchers? Do you keep your distance from the woo circlemakers like you do from researchers?

 

[23_Tauri]

Speaking of enigmatic things, refresh my memory. Have we discussed circles with multiple offset centers in the lay of the plants?

Doesn't one need to use the center to make the circle? :/

limbo, as you clearly have an interest in circle-making, I would reiterate Stray Cat's earlier suggestion that you read The Field Guide by Rob Irving et al.

 

[Limbo]

limbo, as you clearly have an interest in circle-making, I would reiterate Stray Cat's earlier suggestion that you read The Field Guide by Rob Irving et al.

On Circlemakers website there is a beginners guide.

Equipment

The tools you will need are relatively unsophisticated; a 30 metre surveyors tape - this is preferable to string which tends to tangle easily... a 1-2 metre board or plank with a rope attached to each end to form a loop - this is known as a stalk-stomper... dowsing rods - these should be made of copper, and purchased from an expensive new age shop, or, in an emergency, a couple of bent coat-hangers will do... and a plastic garden roller (available from reputable garden centres, or, if only for occasional use, these may be rented from tool-hire shops for about £2 a night). A luminous watch is also useful as a summer night can be surprisingly brief.

[...]

The way you do it is you have your partner stand in the center of the circle holding the tape or string or whatever, or you tie tape/string to a stake or a pole at the center of the circle. Either way the length of the tape/string/whatever and the center is held constant otherwise the circle won't be perfect. Right?

But can you or Stray Cat tell me if there is a specific procedure in that book for making a circle with multiple offset centers?

 

[fls]

But can you or Stray Cat tell me if there is a procedure in that book for making a circle with an offset center?

There are several very obvious ways that this could be accomplished (accidentally or deliberately). Is this supposed to be a mystery?

Linda

 

[Limbo]

Stray Cat one other thing. Have you ever talked to or read anything by Simeon Hein?

 

[Marduk]

Stray Cat one other thing. Have you ever talked to or read anything by Simeon Hein?

lol classic wooster
don't take his word for it, buy his book

 

[Stray Cat]

Stray Cat, can we go over a few more things before this thread dies?

1. Why were you a UFO believer in the first place?

Because Close Encounters of the Third Kind had a great effect on me as an impressionable child. Not that I thought it to be a true account of events, but it encouraged me to look into it and a few UFO books (that I later find to be a collection of lies) later, I'd bought into it.

2. Whats the difference between a woo and a bleever?

Critical thinking

3. Could you summarize for me what Jim says about poltergeists? Why is that word in the subtitle?

Not a lot really, in the early days there were people who considered that ghosts could be responsible for crop circles, I think it just represents the supernatural, invisible entity that was/is a common speculation for cause of the circles.

4. About those fantastic claims. Has it occurred to you that missing time could be involved?

Every single one those fantastic claims that I've investigated personally have turned out to be misrepresentations, exaggerations and lies.
Though missing time is another favourite of the paranormalists because it somehow allows them to put their own particular god in the gaps, I'm sure there are plenty here more qualified than me to explain the proven mechanisms at work in people who experience this missing time.

5. Does it still look like word salad to you?

Not so much like salad, more like a stew now. In as much as you seem to have put a lot of different and unrelated ingredients into a pot, added some water and left it to boil until none of the original content can be recognised, you have then lifted the lid it it looks just like you want it to look.

6. Ever talked to people who claim to be eyewitnesses of crop circle formation in connection with BOLs?

Yes, well certainly a few people who claimed to have witnessed BoLs and who believe there is a connection between them and crop circles.
They are usually creduloids like this fella. Who in this photo claims there are four BoLs (he calls them orbs) hovering in a field in the process of making a crop circle. What he is in fact showing is where the tractor lines go around a corner on the perimeter of the field and the camera angle can see the lighter coloured ground, and the one at the top is a chimney of a distant house. These are the kind of people who are the present day crop circle researchers.

7. Ever make circles with 'woo' or 'bleever' circlemakers like "Danny" or Peter or Matthew? Ever been out with circlemakers who hoped to experience something paranormal in the field?

We all hope to witness something paranormal, even us sceptics. In fact probably more so us sceptics.

Do clicks develop in the circlemaking community? Is there a woo click and a skeptic click? Is there a click that doesn't give a **** about the animosity between circlemakers and researchers? Do you keep your distance from the woo circlemakers like you do from researchers?

There are certainly circles of friends (pun intended) who tend to work together most, but on the whole everyone knows everyone and all get along to some extent. There was only once when I turned down the opportunity to go out circlemaking because I don't particularly like the guy who was 'team leader' that night and his design was much too complex to be made in the time we had.
There really is no animosity as such between the circlemakers and the researcher (though there is plenty the other way around), the circlemakers understand the symbiotic relationship between 'us and them', they think that if we all stopped, it would make their job easier... of course it would, what could be easier than having nothing to investigate.

 

[Stray Cat]

But can you or Stray Cat tell me if there is a specific procedure in that book for making a circle with multiple offset centers?

Well people do it, so there must be.
When making a circle, the outer circumference is made first, using a 'footline' which is basically a person on the end of the tape stomping/scribing a line with his feet. This leaves an 8 inch wide path which is then used as the guide to flatten the circle, like a giant colouring book and not going over the lines. The stompers start at the outer edge and work their way in concentric circles towards the center. Getting two people to start at opposite sides of the footline and stomp along it until they reached the other person's stomp path and then turn inwards would eventually leave two swirled centers.

 

[Stray Cat]

Stray Cat one other thing. Have you ever talked to or read anything by Simeon Hein?

I have come across his 'work' on the internet.

 

[23_Tauri]

There are several very obvious ways that this could be accomplished (accidentally or deliberately). Is this supposed to be a mystery?

Linda

Linda's spot on limbo. This is not difficult to work out IMO. Stray Cat's already answered your question explaining that you only need to circumscribe the outer ring using a central point.

I'd just add that once that is done, the area inside the ring is a blank canvas within which the artist can lay the crop however he wants. It could be woven like a basket:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/eastfield/eastfield2009.html

or s/he could go to town on knots and nests:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/silbury/groundshots.html

It's not rocket science.

 

[Limbo]

Because Close Encounters of the Third Kind had a great effect on me as an impressionable child. Not that I thought it to be a true account of events, but it encouraged me to look into it and a few UFO books (that I later find to be a collection of lies) later, I'd bought into it.

Great movie.

So when you were an impressionable child, you formed a strong association between the UFO phenomenon and the ET mythology. So strong that you didn't even think of it as a mythology. You thought of it as self-evident...as does everyone who is indoctrinated into a mythology.

So you figured ok then if real there should be straightforward physical evidence. Sounds good on paper but alas, you didn't count on the trickster.

You were sucked into the modern ET mythology as an explanation for the "UFO" phenomenon. Maybe you have ancestors that were sucked into the Greek mythology as an explanation for the "god" phenomenon! Same phenomenon, different cultural mythology, different era.

Too bad...it didn't have to be that way. If only Spielberg had listened to Vallée, your mind might be better able to see the UFO phenomenon (and subsequently crop circles) for what they are. Might be free enough...instead of bogged down by deep-seeded cultural influences about the way things are.

Critical thinking

So in your way of thinking Colin Andrews is a woo (dishonest, opportunist moneymaker) but not a believer. So you're saying he only pretends to think the paranormal is involved and that makes him a woo and a critical thinker?

Not a lot really, in the early days there were people who considered that ghosts could be responsible for crop circles, I think it just represents the supernatural, invisible entity that was/is a common speculation for cause of the circles.

Well having been through a poltergeist incident, I can assure you that they are quite real. Does the term Recurrent Spontaneous Psycho Kinesis (RSPK) mean anything to you? It's the real source of "poltergeist" activity, not spirits or ghosts. The RSPK comes from the mind of someone at the center of the "poltergeist" incident...usually an emotionally disturbed adolescent.

According to folklore there are noisy external entities called poltergeists. But it's really our own unconscious psi behind so-called poltergeist activity. It's the same with UFOs and with crop circles.

Every single one those fantastic claims that I've investigated personally have turned out to be misrepresentations, exaggerations and lies.
Though missing time is another favourite of the paranormalists because it somehow allows them to put their own particular god in the gaps, I'm sure there are plenty here more qualified than me to explain the proven mechanisms at work in people who experience this missing time.

Someone claims something about a circle and you investigate by making your own circle and seeing if that something happens?

Not so much like salad, more like a stew now. In as much as you seem to have put a lot of different and unrelated ingredients into a pot, added some water and left it to boil until none of the original content can be recognised, you have then lifted the lid it it looks just like you want it to look.

Hmm I wonder what will come after stew?

Yes, well certainly a few people who claimed to have witnessed BoLs and who believe there is a connection between them and crop circles.
They are usually creduloids like this fella. Who in this photo claims there are four BoLs (he calls them orbs) hovering in a field in the process of making a crop circle. What he is in fact showing is where the tractor lines go around a corner on the perimeter of the field and the camera angle can see the lighter coloured ground, and the one at the top is a chimney of a distant house. These are the kind of people who are the present day crop circle researchers.

Well having seen anomalous lights I can assure you that they are quite real. Whether someone like your creduloid really photographed some or not I don't care.

We all hope to witness something paranormal, even us sceptics. In fact probably more so us sceptics.

Find the best shamans in the UK and persuade them to make circles with you...to turn your circle making into rituals, into spells. And subsequently to turn your circles into temporary, living temples and mandalas. Then you will see paranormal effects I wager.

If you can't do that without laughing and cynicism and whatnot, then perhaps you lack the frame of mind necessary to witness something paranormal out in the field, IMO. Perhaps you're too much of a goat. Your own inner trickster is holding you back, maybe.

 

[I Ratant]

Because Close Encounters of the Third Kind had a great effect on me as an impressionable child. Not that I thought it to be a true account of events, but it encouraged me to look into it and a few UFO books (that I later find to be a collection of lies) later, I'd bought into it.


Critical thinking


Not a lot really, in the early days there were people who considered that ghosts could be responsible for crop circles, I think it just represents the supernatural, invisible entity that was/is a common speculation for cause of the circles.


Every single one those fantastic claims that I've investigated personally have turned out to be misrepresentations, exaggerations and lies.
Though missing time is another favourite of the paranormalists because it somehow allows them to put their own particular god in the gaps, I'm sure there are plenty here more qualified than me to explain the proven mechanisms at work in people who experience this missing time.



Not so much like salad, more like a stew now. In as much as you seem to have put a lot of different and unrelated ingredients into a pot, added some water and left it to boil until none of the original content can be recognised, you have then lifted the lid it it looks just like you want it to look.



Yes, well certainly a few people who claimed to have witnessed BoLs and who believe there is a connection between them and crop circles.
They are usually creduloids like this fella. Who in this photo claims there are four BoLs (he calls them orbs) hovering in a field in the process of making a crop circle. What he is in fact showing is where the tractor lines go around a corner on the perimeter of the field and the camera angle can see the lighter coloured ground, and the one at the top is a chimney of a distant house. These are the kind of people who are the present day crop circle researchers.


We all hope to witness something paranormal, even us sceptics. In fact probably more so us sceptics.


There are certainly circles of friends (pun intended) who tend to work together most, but on the whole everyone knows everyone and all get along to some extent. There was only once when I turned down the opportunity to go out circlemaking because I don't particularly like the guy who was 'team leader' that night and his design was much too complex to be made in the time we had.
There really is no animosity as such between the circlemakers and the researcher (though there is plenty the other way around), the circlemakers understand the symbiotic relationship between 'us and them', they think that if we all stopped, it would make their job easier... of course it would, what could be easier than having nothing to investigate.

.
Ted Trueblood (?) in "True" and "Argosy" magazines way back when had me going for awhile with all his Fortean style Strangely Believe Its.
Things like SHC, and crypto-zoology, always a good read.

 

[Limbo]

Linda's spot on limbo. This is not difficult to work out IMO. Stray Cat's already answered your question explaining that you only need to circumscribe the outer ring using a central point.

I'd just add that once that is done, the area inside the ring is a blank canvas within which the artist can lay the crop however he wants. It could be woven like a basket:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/eastfield/eastfield2009.html

or s/he could go to town on knots and nests:
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/silbury/groundshots.html

It's not rocket science.

Have you seen page 5 of this report? It seems to be a very rare effect and in that report it is regarded as one indication that the circle is 'genuine'.

I just thought that if there was circlemaker instructions out there on how to do that or even prior mention of it I would like to see it. I would also like to see a team demonstrate making that rare effect on camera.

 

[Marduk]

Hmm I wonder what will come after stew? .

baloney sandwiches a la limbo

Have you seen page 5 of this report It seems to be a very rare effect and in that report it is regarded as one indication that the circle is 'genuine'.

seems to me that someone got their math wrong

 

[Stray Cat]

Great movie.

So when you were an impressionable child, you formed a strong association between the UFO phenomenon and the ET mythology.

No, I just didn't understand that people would just make stuff up like that and at that time, I had no reason to doubt them. As far as I was concerned, if it was on the news and in the newspapers, it must be true.

So in your way of thinking Colin Andrews is a woo (dishonest, opportunist moneymaker) but not a believer. So you're saying he only pretends to think the paranormal is involved and that makes him a woo and a critical thinker?

Sorry, I have just committed a classic example of reading what I wanted to read, instead of what you were actually asking. sorry about that. (makes mental note to pay attention)
The difference between a woo and a bleever is nothing. However, you are correct that there is a difference between the woo's who really are ignorant (sometimes it's willful ignorance, sometimes a childlike naivety) and the one's like Andrews who have had long and detailed meetings and discussions with circlemakers and who fully realise the extent of their activities.

Well having been through a poltergeist incident, I can assure you that they are quite real. Does the term Recurrent Spontaneous Psycho Kinesis (RSPK) mean anything to you? It's the real source of "poltergeist" activity, not spirits or ghosts. The RSPK comes from someone at the center of the "poltergeist" incident...usually an emotionally disturbed adolescent.

According to folklore there are noisy external entities called poltergeists. But it's really our own unconscious psi behind so-called poltergeist activity. It's the same with UFOs and with crop circles.

You're so certain and yet you nor anyone else provides any physical proof of what is in effect, a physical event or at least is an event that supposedly interacts with our world in a way that conclusive proof should be available.

Someone claims something about a circle and you investigate by making your own circle and seeing if that something happens?

No, I take factual information that is reported and check it against verifiable sources.

Hmm I wonder what will come after stew?

Dumplings?
Dough balls that are ambiguous in shape, bland to the taste and have no real substance?

Well having seen anomalous lights I can assure you that they are quite real. Whether someone like your creduloid really photographed some or not I don't care.

I'm very sure that anomalous lights are very real. It's the speculative and completely unevidenced explanations for them that turn out to be blx.
If Pyrka hadn't photographed what he'd saw, his claimed sighting too would be unidentified anomalous lights. It's only when physical evidence is offered that it can be found to be mundanely explained. Go figure.

Find the best shamans Charlatans in the UK and persuade them to make circles with you...to turn your circle making into rituals, into spells. And subsequently to turn your circles into temporary, living temples. Then you will see paranormal effects I wager.

Fixed that for you.
You still seem to be labouring under the impression that I have been a sceptic all my life. You think I haven't experienced ritual and spells?
I'll wager that any effect any ritual or spell has is entirely in your mind.

If you can't do that without laughing and cynicism and whatnot, then perhaps you lack the frame of mind necessary to witness something paranormal out in the field, IMO. Perhaps you're too much of a goat. Your own inner trickster is holding you back, maybe.

Yes, sure... I couldn't give a monkeys about internal mind tricks, I know the human mind is capable of tricking us, I'm an experienced magician and understand the process well enough. What I'm interested in are physical events that are reported to happen within common shared reality.