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What about this crop circle?

KingMerv00 said:
Can't be. Even alien and paranormal donkeys have to poop and deal with the rain.

Checkmate.
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Nuh-uhn! Alien donkeys have to poop, but not paranormal ones. That's what makes them paranormal!

By the way, the short story I was thinking of was "Puppet Show" by Fredric Brown (published 1962).
 
Limbo said:
33:20 - 36:33

Thoughts, Stray Cat?
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It's pure bunk. Not just that section, all of it.

The reason the military were involved in Operation Blackbird was because the viewing position chosen by Colin Andrews was on their land. They also provided the night vision equipment, other than that, they had no direct involvement with the planning or running of the operation. It's covered in detail in the book Round in Circles by Jim Schnabel who was a part of the team involved in Operation Blackbird.

And I'd remind anyone that if crop circle researchers really could tell a 'genuine' crop circle from a 'hoax' then Colin Andrews wouldn't have been caught out... him being the world's number one 'expert' an all. He wasn't set up, he set himself up.
 
Limbo said:
I came across a crop circle documentary I hadn't seen before. Have you seen this one Stray Cat?
"doubleuetc.colinandrews.net/HiddenTruthDVD.html"]Crop Circles - The Hidden Truth[/URL]
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I watched this video a while back and although I’m not that familiar with Richard ‘D’ Hall’s ‘research’ what struck me is his tendency to take the most spurious of connections and arrive at extraordinary conclusions that support his belief system.

Notwithstanding the libellous nature of much of what Mr Hall says in his film regarding Lundberg, and the morality of him checking the Land Registry and tenancy arrangements of not just Lundberg but also his neighbours, Hall suggests that the following observations give substance to his theory that John Lundberg is employed by MI5 as part of psy ops:

1. Lundberg spent the last year of his fine art MA at SLADE Art College. SLADE is next to an MI5 building. Hall states “it is a known fact that intelligence agencies often recruit agents in their final year at university”. Therefore John Lundberg was appointed to work for MI5 whilst he was a student at SLADE.
2. Lundberg says he started making crop circles in the early ‘90s. This is just after he left art college.
3. Many crop circles are mathematical in design and Lundberg is not a mathematician. Therefore someone else is designing them for him.
4. Circlemakers.org used to have a hyperlink to an MI5 recruitment page and has key words “MI5” and “espionage” assigned to the site. (Aside: if you were employed as secret agent, would you advertise the fact openly on your website? Then again is this more likely to be indicative of circlemaker.org humour? )
5. The administrator on circlemakers.org host domain is John Kurzack. A fellow with a similar name, John Kurzak, works for the US Air Force, on an air base in the same town as another USAF air base which house USAF intelligence staff.
6. The Land Registry details for Lundberg’s apartment are incomplete. Therefore there’s a cover up as to who really owns his flat and pays his rent.

He finds the above ‘links’ to be sinister enough to be demonstrable proof that Lundberg works for MI5. I think they demonstrate he (i.e. Richard 'D' Hall) is a paranoid fantasist. Maybe you can make up your own minds. :rolleyes:
 
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I believe I heard somewhere that a donkey has been charged with trespassing, destroying property, and defecating in public, relating to a recent Crop Circle formation in Indiana, or Illinois or something like that. They quoted the farmer; "I caught this Ass wrecking my corn field, and called the cops"
 
23_Tauri said:
I watched this video a while back and although I’m not that familiar with Richard ‘D’ Hall’s ‘research’ what struck me is his tendency to take the most spurious of connections and arrive at extraordinary conclusions that support his belief system.

Notwithstanding the libellous nature of much of what Mr Hall says in his film regarding Lundberg, and the morality of him checking the Land Registry and tenancy arrangements of not just Lundberg but also his neighbours, Hall suggests that the following observations give substance to his theory that John Lundberg is employed by MI5 as part of psy ops:

1. Lundberg spent the last year of his fine art MA at SLADE Art College. SLADE is next to an MI5 building. Hall states “it is a known fact that intelligence agencies often recruit agents in their final year at university”. Therefore John Lundberg was appointed to work for MI5 whilst he was a student at SLADE.
2. Lundberg says he started making crop circles in the early ‘90s. This is just after he left art college.
3. Many crop circles are mathematical in design and Lundberg is not a mathematician. Therefore someone else is designing them for him.
4. Circlemakers.org used to have a hyperlink to an MI5 recruitment page and has key words “MI5” and “espionage” assigned to the site. (Aside: if you were employed as secret agent, would you advertise the fact openly on your website? Then again is this more likely to be indicative of circlemaker.org humour? )
5. The administrator on circlemakers.org host domain is John Kurzack. A fellow with a similar name, John Kurzak, works for the US Air Force, on an air base in the same town as another USAF air base which house USAF intelligence staff.
6. The Land Registry details for Lundberg’s apartment are incomplete. Therefore there’s a cover up as to who really owns his flat and pays his rent.

He finds the above ‘links’ to be sinister enough to be demonstrable proof that Lundberg works for MI5. I think they demonstrate he’s a paranoid fantasist. Maybe you can make up your own minds. :rolleyes:
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1. Proximity is no proof of contact. And even contact would not be evidence of recruitment. Or else we could assume all fine arts students there are recruited as undercover psyops guys. And what exactly do fine bring to the espionage/psyops table?
2. There are a lot of explanations for why he could have started after finishing college, for example more spare time after exams. Or a new social environment that encouraged him.
3. Geometric designs can and have been designed without a lot of mathematics. (Masonry, parts of architecture have been generating geometric symbols with drafting compass and other instruments)You also have to take into consideration that there is a lot of software available that lets you experiment with formulae and then draws them until you are satisfied.
5. Could be nothing more than coincidence. Especially with the name John in the equation.
6. Does that automatically indicate there is a coverup? And if there is a coverup does it automatically have to be MI5? No in both cases.

You are pretty fast in filling the gaps with accusations of MI5 involvement, you may want to check out if there are more mundane explanations.
 
Moss, maybe I didn't make myself clear - I was being ironic! I was pointing out the ridiculous nature of Hall's 'evidence'. Did you not read my last line where I say "I think it shows Hall is a paranoid fantasist"? Perhaps I'll go back and put that bit in bold.

I realise these are the most spurious of spurious links...Reading my post back yes I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear. I'll be more careful in future.
 
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23_Tauri said:
Moss, maybe I didn't make myself clear - I was being ironic! I was pointing out the ridiculous nature of Hall's 'evidence'. Did you not read my last line where I say "I think it shows Hall is a paranoid fantasist"? Perhaps I'll go back and put that bit in bold.

I realise these are the most spurious of spurious links...Reading my post back yes I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear. I'll be more careful in future.
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:blush: Lack of careful reading on my part.
 
Stray Cat said:
The reason the military were involved in Operation Blackbird was because the viewing position chosen by Colin Andrews was on their land.
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He chose that position because Ministry of Defense land was a favorite and predictable target of circlemakers at that time? If so which group of circlemakers was foolish or brave enough to make circles on government land?


And I'd remind anyone that if crop circle researchers really could tell a 'genuine' crop circle from a 'hoax' then Colin Andrews wouldn't have been caught out... him being the world's number one 'expert' an all. He wasn't set up, he set himself up.
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And I'd remind anyone that if crop circles are in part a psychic, participatory phenomenon as I claim, then expecting a consistent and reliable way to tell a 'genuine' crop circle from a 'hoax' is unwarranted. Such an expectation would be justified if we were perhaps dealing with extra-terrestrials, but we aren't.
 
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Wait, stop the presses, hold everything!
Limbo said:
And I'd remind anyone that if crop circles are in part a psychic, participatory phenomenon as I claim
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A claim. An actual clear, concise claim! Well spank my ass and call me Charlie!

Ok, Limbo, that's your claim. Now what supports your claim? What evidence do you have of this?
 
Limbo said:
He chose that position because Ministry of Defense land was a favorite and predictable target of circlemakers at that time? Which group of circlemakers was foolish or brave enough to make circles on government land?
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No, the observation point was on military land, the fields they were watching were private farmland.

However, in Hall's documentary, he mentions the military looking onto one particular crop circle, this was actually technically made on a UK Army base and is variously reported amongst croppies to have been made in the middle of an army firing range that would have meant that human circlemakers would have to get passed barbed wire fences, security guards and dogs and risk being shot.
But when you look into the actual fact, the crop circle in quesiton was made on land owned by the MoD and leased to a local farmer to grow crops. As such it wasn't actually on an army base at all and wasn't surrounded by a fence at all. In fact for all intents and purposes it was just a regular farm with easy access.
 
Stray Cat said:
No, the observation point was on military land, the fields they were watching were private farmland.
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Is that private farmland still a crop circle hotspot? Is it one of the spots that 'experienced' circlemakers like? Do you know which group of circlemakers was making circles there, so close to an observation point on government land, before and after Operation Blackbird? Do you know of any reports on any of those circles by Colin or other researchers?

However, in Hall's documentary, he mentions the military looking onto one particular crop circle, this was actually technically made on a UK Army base and is variously reported amongst croppies to have been made in the middle of an army firing range that would have meant that human circlemakers would have to get passed barbed wire fences, security guards and dogs and risk being shot.
But when you look into the actual fact, the crop circle in quesiton was made on land owned by the MoD and leased to a local farmer to grow crops. As such it wasn't actually on an army base at all and wasn't surrounded by a fence at all. In fact for all intents and purposes it was just a regular farm with easy access.
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Which group(s) of circlemakers made those circles?

Do circles still appear on that regular farm with easy access? Where is the report on that circle?

Why would the MoD want to lease land to a local farmer to grow crops? Is that a common thing to do?
 
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Limbo said:
Is that private farmland still a crop circle hotspot?
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No, the circles gradually moved slightly north and are all now centered around Alton Barnes and Avebury.

Limbo said:
Is it one of the spots that 'experienced' circlemakers like? Do you know which group of circlemakers was making circles there, so close to an observation point on government land, before Operation Blackbird? Do you know of any reports on any of those circles by Colin or other researchers?
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Jim Schnabel used to make circles, and he was a part of the Operation Blackbird team. There was also a story about a crop circle board game being found in that particular circle. A really badly produced board game made by Bristol eccentric (that's being kind to him) who calls himself Merlin.


Limbo said:
Which group(s) of circlemakers made those circles?
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It could have been anyone of a number of teams operating at that time.
Team Satan, The Beckhampton Group, Merlin, Jim Schnabel, who knows?

Limbo said:
Do circles still appear on that regular farm with easy access? Where is the report on that circle?
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Don't have that information to hand, but no, as a rule the circles don't appear as much around Salsbury plain and Hampshire anymore.

Limbo said:
Why would the MoD want to lease land to a local farmer to grow crops? Is that a common thing to do?
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The MoD are a massive land owners in the UK, they don't use all of it obviously because we don't have such a big army as we needed during the two world wars. As a result, yes, they lease a lot of it out so it can be productive instead of just sitting there wasted.
 
Sledge said:
Wait, stop the presses, hold everything!
A claim. An actual clear, concise claim! Well spank my ass and call me Charlie!

Ok, Limbo, that's your claim. Now what supports your claim? What evidence do you have of this?
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Beat me to it.

And you know what they say about extraordinary claims...
 
Stray Cat said:
No, the circles gradually moved slightly north and are all now centered around Alton Barnes and Avebury.
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So someone was making circles there on that private farmland on a regular basis. Colin Andrews thought those circles were genuine and predictable, and so he decided that would be a good place to watch. Only thing is, he needs the nearby government land to observe from.


Jim Schnabel used to make circles, and he was a part of the Operation Blackbird team.
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Jim Schnabel, author of Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies? Does he still make crop circles? Is he a 'landscape artist'?

Do you think there is a chance that he made the very circles that led Colin to chose that location, unbeknown to Colin?


There was also a story about a crop circle board game being found in that particular circle. A really badly produced board game made by Bristol eccentric (that's being kind to him) who calls himself Merlin.
Click to expand...


Is that a normal thing for circlemakers to do? Leave stuff in the circle to be found?
 
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Limbo said:
So someone was making circles there on that private farmland on a regular basis. Colin Andrews thought those circles were genuine and predictable, and so he decided that would be a good place to watch. Only thing is, he needs the nearby government land to observe from.
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Yes, that about sums it up.

Limbo said:
Jim Schnabel, author of Remote Viewers: The Secret History of America’s Psychic Spies? Does he still make crop circles? Is he a 'landscape artist'?
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Yes, the very same Jim Schnabel. He left the UK to go back to the US to look into to remote viewing after publishing his Crop Circle book about his experiences here in the UK.

Limbo said:
Do you think there is a chance that he made the very circles that led Colin to chose that location, unbeknown to Colin?
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Colin wasn't 'on guard duty' that night, but it's possible that Jim could have made it. He doesn't say as much in his book but there is a hint of it.

Limbo said:
Is that a normal thing for circlemakers to do? Leave stuff in the circle to be found?
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Not intentionally no. Though Merlin is a nutcase, so I wouldn't put it past him.
 
Ok, moving on. Someone (maybe Jim Schnabel, maybe "Merlin") made a crappy circle in that private farmland and left a crop circle board game and some wire behind. And something made Colin think there was some sort of UFO lightshow over that private farmland, getting his hopes of success up. Is that right?



Does Jim still make circles? Or do anything artistic?
 
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