What about this crop circle?

[CORed]

So your position is all cropcircles are man made. I find that it is as ludicrous as someone saying they were all caused by aliens. The debunkers have failed to satisfy all the issues and questions I have concerning the circles. I remain open minded until a crop circle artist kindly creates an advanced mathematical complex geometrical crop circle with multiple layered lay in varying directions with all the physical findings considered abnormal in plant, soil, and em radio readings. They must do all this either filmed or with
impartial eyewitnesses from varying fields. They must do all this in a matter of hours.
The onus of proof I feel is on those who say they know 100% of crop circles are made
by humans. A side note on John Lundberg, of circlemakers and Doug and Dave....crop circles preceeded all of them.

I, for one, will take the position that all crop circles are human made until somebody provides convincing evidence to the contrary. Arguments from ignorance and incredulity are not convincing evidence, nor are people measuring "electromagnetic energy" with instruments they don't understand. Attributing crop circles to anything other than humans in the absence of convincing evidence that they were not made by humans is just plain silly.

 

[tsig]

It is audience participation theater, where the audience are the only players.

You provide the structure and the audience acts the parts according to their wishes?

 

[supergreen]

the anomalies most certainly are anomalies not found in known human created fields.They are not normal conditions. This is 2010 not 2005 and your debunkers have themselves been debunked. None of the debunking links provided by the disdainfull superior skeptics here are up to date nor does a one of them take into consideration ALL
of the photographed, researched or quantifiably 'unusual' details collected over 2 decades
as a whole.

 

[tsig]

the anomalies most certainly are anomalies not found in known human created fields.They are not normal conditions. This is 2010 not 2005 and your debunkers have themselves been debunked. None of the debunking links provided by the disdainfull superior skeptics here are up to date nor does a one of them take into consideration ALL
of the photographed, researched or quantifiably 'unusual' details collected over 2 decades
as a whole.

"You can explain some of them but you can't explain all of them"

The cry of Bigfooters, UfOnaughts, ghost hunters, ect. ect ect.

 

[I Ratant]

/shrug

Jung would probably agree with everything I've said, more or less. He interpreted the UFO phenomenon (and religion) in terms of archetypes and attributed paranormal UFO effects (and miracles) to the psyche, that's all I'm doing with crop circles.




All of those things - aliens, God, ghosts - are archetypes in symbolic form. Not autonomous entities. They are patterns in our minds, but because psi is real archetypes can act in what we call everyday life. When the ego-self (our "I") interacts with archetypes, they take on a symbolic form, in a manner of speaking, and the result is an "alien" encounter or something. See where I'm coming from? They are only in our minds, but our minds are everywhere - consciousness is non-local. Mind is primary, not matter.

.
Despite the importuning of the assembled multitude, the football still needs a human carrier to move down the field.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

the anomalies most certainly are anomalies not found in known human created fields.

Are not.

And it's your burden to prove they are. You have not come close to doing that. You haven't even set up a methodology that would do so.

As I've been saying, at the very least you need to compare the observations you claim are anomalous with the same type of observations from known mundane conditions. You (or anyone else claiming crop circles can't all be human-made) haven't done this.

 

[fls]

the anomalies most certainly are anomalies not found in known human created fields.They are not normal conditions. This is 2010 not 2005 and your debunkers have themselves been debunked. None of the debunking links provided by the disdainfull superior skeptics here are up to date nor does a one of them take into consideration ALL
of the photographed, researched or quantifiably 'unusual' details collected over 2 decades
as a whole.

Here is the problem. You can select out a tiny subset of fields where you have sufficient information to know that they are human created fields. And you can catalogue anomalies and unusual details up the wahoo from fields without sufficient information to establish who made them. But without any sort of 'gold standard', you are unable to assign or exclude characteristics from human created fields, especially since your database of unusual characteristics necessarily includes those collected from human created fields.

If this were an ordinary test, where you were asked to divide up a group of people on the basis of whether or not they had heart disease, and you were told that all we know is that three of the people definitely do not have heart disease and they all have blue eyes, would the presence or absence of blue eyes then allow you to accurately divide up the rest of the group?

Linda

 

[Marduk]

Which means they're not anomalies. That's the point I've been trying to make.

thats the point I was making too
well done for spotting that

 

[supergreen]

Again the point being...... no human experimentor has been able to replicate the features
all taken as a whole ie: formation times, lay patterns, and all the physical findings (including the lack of any visible mechanical man made evidence) and plant /soil anomalies visible to the naked eye ( forget the researchers for a moment ). No one and its been tried. I myself tried various things on wheat and canola including a leaf blower,
pillows, the traditionall board and rope and I could not create ANY of the things mentioned above. Try basketweeving wheat sometime.lol, and get back to me.

 

[Marduk]

Again the point being...... no human experimentor has been able to replicate the features
all taken as a whole ie: formation times, lay patterns, and all the physical findings (including the lack of any visible mechanical man made evidence) and plant /soil anomalies visible to the naked eye ( forget the researchers for a moment ). No one and its been tried. I myself tried various things on wheat and canola including a leaf blower,
pillows, the traditionall board and rope and I could not create ANY of the things mentioned above. Try basketweeving wheat sometime.lol, and get back to me.

first rule of post club, make sure you read all the previous posts before making what you think are factual statements

then you won't look so daft

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Again the point being...... no human experimentor has been able to replicate the features
all taken as a whole ie: formation times, lay patterns, and all the physical findings (including the lack of any visible mechanical man made evidence) and plant /soil anomalies visible to the naked eye ( forget the researchers for a moment ).

That's not true.

Even if it were (and it's not), the burden is on you to provide evidence that these things can't be made by humans. It has been demonstrated again and again that they can.

No one and its [sic] been tried. I myself tried various things on wheat and canola including a leaf blower,
pillows, the traditionall board and rope and I could not create ANY of the things mentioned above. Try basketweeving [sic] wheat sometime.lol, and get back to me.

Please read the thread.

Linda, I believe, is skilled in basketweaving and assures us that the stuff found in crop circles is extremely simple. Stray Cat has reported how quick and easy it is to do the sort of things found in crop circles.

 

[Toke]

The list of anomalies got me thinking of an old story of a psychologist in Copenhagen who bought a Geiger counter my mail order and discovered that there were abnormal radiation levels in her office.
The Swedish consider nuclear power so safe that they have placed a power plant next to Copenhagen instead of Stockholm, and there is a civil defence plan on radioactive emissions.

The measuring part got activated, when they did not find anything they called back and found out where she had made the measurings.

Inside a building made from granite, slightly radioactive granite.

 

[supergreen]

you keep insulting me lol without addressing all the features as a whole as
Ive said time and again. So stray cat can basketweeve. Can stray cat basketweeve me a complex mathmatical geometirc shape hundreds of meters
with different layered patterns thrown in here and there in a matter of hours
without leaving any of stray cat signs behind but leaving behind blown nodes
black glaze molten meteorite iron fragments evenly dispered and with plants bent and elongated nodes that later show increased growth rate without anyone knowing???

 

[Stray Cat]

the anomalies most certainly are anomalies not found in known human created fields.They are not normal conditions. This is 2010 not 2005 and your debunkers have themselves been debunked. None of the debunking links provided by the disdainfull superior skeptics here are up to date nor does a one of them take into consideration ALL
of the photographed, researched or quantifiably 'unusual' details collected over 2 decades
as a whole.

Indeed it is 2010, so if my links are so 'out of date' why do you put so much faith in the old and out dated work of someone who you apparently still refer to as Dr Levengood when he himself has even had to stop falsely using that title? It seems to me like you're the one who isn't up to speed.

Provide examples of this "photographed, researched or quantifiably 'unusual' details collected over 2 decades" and I'll gladly debunk it for you.

But before you do that, read the thread from the start because I don't intend to go over stuff that I've already gone through for Limbo's benefit.

 

[Stray Cat]

you keep insulting me lol without addressing all the features as a whole as
Ive said time and again. So stray cat can basketweeve. Can stray cat basketweeve me a complex mathmatical geometirc shape hundreds of meters
with different layered patterns thrown in here and there in a matter of hours
without leaving any of stray cat signs behind but leaving behind blown nodes
black glaze molten meteorite iron fragments evenly dispered and with plants bent and elongated nodes that later show increased growth rate without anyone knowing???

Yes apparently I can, though at the time I didn't realise that's what I was doing... those attributes were given to me by crop circle researchers.

READ THE THREAD

Molten meteorite iron fragments

 

[I Ratant]

The list of anomalies got me thinking of an old story of a psychologist in Copenhagen who bought a Geiger counter my mail order and discovered that there were abnormal radiation levels in her office.
The Swedish consider nuclear power so safe that they have placed a power plant next to Copenhagen instead of Stockholm, and there is a civil defence plan on radioactive emissions.

The measuring part got activated, when they did not find anything they called back and found out where she had made the measurings.

Inside a building made from granite, slightly radioactive granite.

.
We had "glow badges" at one work site.
Never a twitch on any of them over the years, despite the proximity of a known source of radiation.... until one day, one of the badges showed activity.
Investigation found that the individual with the active badge had taken that one home on a weekend (not something that should have been done), and placed it on a dresser next to an old aircraft instrument with a radium painted dial for a couple of days.
Solved.
And, it told us that the badges were really good badges!

 

[Stray Cat]

You provide the structure and the audience acts the parts according to their wishes?

Yes, the artist truly becomes irrelevant to the art allowing the viewer to project whatever they wish onto it and give it life. From their the theater of human interaction and psychology take over and a play plays out to it's conclusion. In fact many different plays all inspired by the same piece.

 

[supergreen]

I personally think Randi should offer money to the person who can replicate
ALL of the features experts in the field agree upon as being indicators of an
unusually or non humanly created formation. for scientific analysis.
If Randi should ever choose to do so I would accept those results.

 

[JimBenArm]

You have this backwards. The award would go to someone who can prove that a crop circle has anomalies not present in human-made circles, and that humans cannot do it.
This has not been done.
As usual, the woos don't understand the whole "burden of proof" thingy.

Which is one reason the million is safe.

 

[Marduk]

I personally think Randi should offer money to the person who can replicate
ALL of the features experts in the field agree upon as being indicators of an
unusually or non humanly created formation. for scientific analysis.
If Randi should ever choose to do so I would accept those results.

so you want him to offer money for people to do non paranormal things
I don't think he has enough for that


no one does