What about this crop circle?

[Alley Cat]

Banksy... Quiet?

Well quiet compared to when he was in his prime. Anyway, he has to do something useful in Winter - no crops for a while lol !!

 

[Stray Cat]

I don't know his motives or intentions either, but is his testimony atypical of circlemakers? Most circlemakers make paranormal claims, don't they?

Some do certainly... several circlemakers are into woo just the same as the croppies are. The difference being that they would like the paranormal aspect to be them instead of a third party (alien, god, whatever).

As for your claim about researchers and photos, I can't address that. I've never been to a crop circle and watched researchers photograph a circle. But I have seen some impressive photos.

Of course the photos are impressive.
They're photos of impressive works of art.

But what is it about any of these photos that makes you think it can not totally be a human based effort without the need for a paranormal interference?

 

[Limbo]

Heh? There was graffiti found in ancient Egypt... there are cave paintings... what are you saying?

I'm just wondering if you are aware of how old the crop circle phenomenon is, I don't think most skeptics are. I think they tend to think it started with Doug and Dave.

 

[Stray Cat]

You make it sound like the crop circle phenomenon is modern.

It is, relatively.

 

[realpaladin]

It is, relatively.

The media attention is. But that is not the fault of the circles. It is the fault of the media (who were not around earlier...)

 

[Limbo]

Some do certainly... several circlemakers are into woo just the same as the croppies are. The difference being that they would like the paranormal aspect to be them instead of a third party (alien, god, whatever).

I just get the feeling that skeptics who point to circlemakers as the solution to the mystery are very selective about what they hear from circlemakers.

But what is it about any of these photos that makes you think it can not totally be a human based effort without the need for a paranormal interference?

Well, take the fifth photo from the top as an example. Can you point me to any circlemakers who describe doing such a thing? Or explain how to do it? All circlemakers seem to do is describe how to use a stomperboard. I've never heard one describe how to make something like photo 5. Can that be made with a stomperboard?

I've never heard of one demonstrating or explaining how to get a weave effect like in the last few photos. Can one create a weave effect with a stomperboard? Or do you need to do it by hand? Can you point me to a circlemaker who addresses this?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

"All circles are genuine circles."?

Piffle I say Sir. Piffle. I have read somewhere on the 'net that expert cerealogists have measured many real ones with yardsticks and report that some are out of round by as much as an-inch-and-half!

I used to know someone who argued that the crop circles were too "perfectly circular" to be manmade. How accurately can you draw a circle when the resolution of the drawing medium is the space between stalks of a crop?

 

[Alley Cat]

Well, take the fifth photo from the top as an example. Can you point me to any circlemakers who describe doing such a thing? Or explain how to do it? All circlemakers seem to do is describe how to use a stomperboard. I've never heard one describe how to make something like photo 5. Can that be made with a stomperboard?

I've never heard of one demonstrating or explaining how to get a weave effect like in the last few photos. Can one create a weave effect with a stomperboard? Can you point me to a circlemaker who addresses this?

I've never made a crop circle, but given enough time to plan it and create it I could do any of those designs. They are clever, probably a lot of hard work, but mainly they are a repetetive design.

I'm sure if the right questions were asked of the right people, explanations on how it was done would be forthcoming.

Just because the explanations have not been given does not imply "paranormal" activity.

 

[Limbo]

I've never made a crop circle, but given enough time to plan it and create it I could do any of those designs. They are clever, probably a lot of hard work, but mainly they are a repetetive design.

But you aren't given enough time for a lot of hard work. Nor are you given daylight, good weather, a work crew, a porta-potty, etc.

Just because the explanations have not been given does not imply "paranormal" activity.

It will turn out that psi was only perinormal all along.

 

[fls]

I've never heard of one demonstrating or explaining how to get a weave effect like in the last few photos. Can one create a weave effect with a stomperboard? Or do you need to do it by hand? Can you point me to a circlemaker who addresses this?

I'm a weaver and I can tell you how to do this.

You start along one edge and flatten every other clump at a 45 degree angle to the right, away from the still standing stalks. Then you go back and flatten the remaining clumps at a 45 degree angle to the left, also away from the still standing stalks. Do the same for the next row. Repeat as desired. The best picture to illustrate this is the 17th from the top.

Linda

 

[Stray Cat]

I just get the feeling that skeptics who point to circlemakers as the solution to the mystery are very selective about what they hear from circlemakers.

It's not really about sceptics being selective about what they 'hear', it's about being selective in what they believe.
Any claim that goes unverified or can not be shown to be valid is always going to be treated as suspect by a sceptic.

Well, take the fifth photo from the top as an example. Can you point me to any circlemakers who describe doing such a thing? Or explain how to do it? All circlemakers seem to do is describe how to use a stomperboard. I've never heard one describe how to make something like photo 5. Can that be made with a stomperboard?

Do you think circlemakers remove their hands before commencing work?
The stomper isn't the only tool available, you must have seen these:

Very humanly made. So taking a bunch of stalks and twisting them and bending them over is no problem.

I've never heard of one demonstrating or explaining how to get a weave effect like in the last few photos. Can one create a weave effect with a stomperboard? Can you point me to a circlemaker who addresses this?

Of course you can. Although technically, it's not a weave, it just gives the illusion of a weave (which is the whole idea).
Two people walking parallel about three foot apart, stomping alternate patches at 45° so they overlay each other is one way to do it.

Last season the single circle in Eastfield:

Has a weave effect that use a different method.
In this one the circlemakers had stomped North rows then miss a row and stomp a South row all the way across (the distinctive straight stomp lines in the photo) and then in the gaps of crop that were left upright, they took arcs and stomped in a similar fashion first going clockwise and the next upright row going anti-clockwise. It's not rocket science no wonder those who can't figure out how it could be done have to believe in the paranormal as a substitute.

 

[Alley Cat]

But you aren't given enough time for a lot of hard work. Nor are you given daylight, good weather, etc.

Well that depends on who's holding the stop watch. Not every crop circle is made against the farmer's wishes, or has to be carried out in the dead of night. Danger of assuming here, that crop circles are always made under the same frenetic conditions. They're not.

 

[Limbo]

It's not really about sceptics being selective about what they 'hear', it's about being selective in what they believe.

I hear you but I don't believe.

Any claim that goes unverified or can not be shown to be valid is always going to be treated as suspect by a sceptic.

Yeah, I'm asking you to treat the claims of Doug and Dave as suspect and go from there.

Do you think circlemakers remove their hands before commencing work?

So let me get this straight. You are saying that a stomperboard is not enough, that a circlemaker must do some work by hand?

Of course you can. Although technically, it's not a weave, it just gives the illusion of a weave (which is the whole idea).
Two people walking parallel about three foot apart, stomping alternate patches at 45° so they overlay each other is one way to do it.

So the overlays will all be the same width (that of the stomperboard length)?

 

[fls]

So the overlays will all be the same width (that of the stomperboard)?

No. Since you are always working from an edge, you can advance the stomperboard any distance you like into the field, in order to get the size of clump that you want. If you like, I can explain how you can do more complicated weave structures - like lace weaves or twills - in case you want to create some art yourself.

Linda

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

So let me get this straight. You are saying that a stomperboard is not enough, that a circlemaker must do some work by hand?

Why does that statement require clarification?

 

[Limbo]

Not every crop circle is made against the farmer's wishes, or has to be carried out in the dead of night.

Can you provide an example or two?

 

[Alley Cat]

Can you provide an example or two?

No. I've got better things to do.

But surely you are intelligent enough not to really believe that every crop circle is made in the dead of night with a flashlight and a stomper board?

Surely you can see, just by looking at examples shown below, that these are easily man made? Some, very easily made under difficult conditions.

How many examples do you need to see?

 

[Vortigern99]

Limbo, as usual with believers in the paranormal, your arguments from incredulity ("I cannot believe any human being could possibly have done that!") and ignorance ("I personally know of no mechanism by which a human being could have done that!") are unconvincing, unscientific and unimpressive.

Human beings did this, do this and will do this more in the future. We know how they do it (boards, hands, feet and string) and why they do it (art, fun). Your lack of critical thinking skills and will to believe are blinding you to the answers that are right in front of your eyes.

 

[Limbo]

But surely you are intelligent enough not to really believe that every crop circle is made in the dead of night with a flashlight and a stomper board?

Yes I am. And don't call me Surely.

"Every" crop circle need not be made in the dead of night. Only most. As is the case it seems. An explanation must accommodate that.

Exceptions I can think of are those that are contracted as ads and publicity stunts and/or debunk efforts. If you can find other exceptions to be considered, then do so.

 

[Stray Cat]

But you aren't given enough time for a lot of hard work. Nor are you given daylight, good weather, a work crew, a porta-potty, etc.

What is enough time?
Usually that would be the correct time in which to do a job.
Therefore, people usually design the crop circles knowing roughly how long they will take to complete. There are exceptions to this such as the OP's Alien Face & Disc which actually took 3 nights to complete, or last year's Alien Ship & script which was also done over 3 nights,:

Day 1

Day 2

Day 3

or the Mayan Calendar 2004 which took 2 nights.

As for "daylight", why would you need that?
People can see in the dark you know. Certainly enough to be at the end of a length of surveyors tape walking and keeping it tight.

As for "weather", people don't melt in the rain like the Wicked witch of the West in Wizard of Oz you know.

As for a "work crew", if you haven't got any friends, you're probably more likely to be into UFO's than making crop circles

As for Porta-potty: Just 'go' before you leave the house... if the worst comes to the worst, it's not only bears that crap in the woods.