'What about building 7'?

Status
Not open for further replies.
cooperman said:
And there lies the problem. For years we were told that everyone knew the building would collapse but then it took years for NIST to conclude that it was a single column failure. Do you see the contradiction? How did they know it would collapse?
Click to expand...

No, there is no contradiction. The firefighters on the scene, who are trained to assess the condition of buildings on fire, put a transit on it and found the lean. With the continuing fires that were not fought, along with informatio n like the transit, they decided it was going to collapse. Because they knew it was going to collapse does not mean they knew what the exact mechanism would be. Why would you even think that they would know this?
 
cooperman said:
It isn't so much NIST's conclusions that i have a problem with. It is how they fit into what we were told for years.

Can you explain how everyone knew wtc7 would collapse? They were absolutely convinced that 7 would collapse imminently. How did they know this when NIST has concluded that the collapse was caused by the failure of a single column?
Click to expand...

Cooperman,

We have seen your game before. HI played the same exact game.

Here, I will go slow for you.

Fire + steel framed buildings+time-firefighting= collapse.

Does it matter that the people on the scene that day knew that it would a Column 79? No. Not one bit.

All that matters, is that they saw the building, recognized the signs of collapse, and acted appropriately.

What is you point?
 
I think he makes the mistake of thinking THE ONLY WAY that WTC7 could have collapsed due to fires, according to NIST, is via Column 79.

This is a mistake. NIST has concluded that this is why it collapsed, NOT that it was the only way it could have collapsed via fires.

TAM:)
 
cooperman said:
Define eventually. They seemed to think it was pretty imminent. "Keep your eye on that building, it will be coming down soon".

How did he know the building was coming down soon? Could he see the thermal expansion in structural members around column 79?

You do see the problem here, don't you?
Click to expand...

cantonear1968 said:
And what better way to attempt this but to bog the conversation down on semantics.
Click to expand...

Oy Vay!
 
T.A.M. said:
Provide your evidence. In relation to "everyone knew WTC7 was going to collapse", provide quotes of what was said, by whom, and what their qualifications were.

I am not asking for this to be nasty, but you have made such a statement, and I want to see the proof. I wish to see this, not to corner you or to waste your time, but because I think if you look at who said such, and why they said it, it might explain things a little better.

TAM:)
Click to expand...

These aren't my claims, they are debunker's claims.

However, it is true that everyone said that wtc7 collapse was imminent. The FDNY were all convinced of an imminent collapse. You media all reported that the building would collapse and were waiting for it to do so. You know this. It was a favourite argument of debunkers before the NIST report was released.
 
triforcharity said:
Cooperman,

We have seen your game before. HI played the same exact game.

Here, I will go slow for you.

Fire + steel framed buildings+time-firefighting= collapse.

Does it matter that the people on the scene that day knew that it would a Column 79? No. Not one bit.

All that matters, is that they saw the building, recognized the signs of collapse, and acted appropriately.

What is you point?
Click to expand...

What were the signs of collapse?
 
Disbelief said:
No, there is no contradiction. The firefighters on the scene, who are trained to assess the condition of buildings on fire, put a transit on it and found the lean. With the continuing fires that were not fought, along with informatio n like the transit, they decided it was going to collapse. Because they knew it was going to collapse does not mean they knew what the exact mechanism would be. Why would you even think that they would know this?
Click to expand...

What evidence do you have that wtc7 was leaning?
 
Nice dodge.

For example....

If it was a media person who said, at 330PM, that WTC7 was going to collapse, my suggestion would be that they got such info from reports by firefighters or other experts.

If it was a firefighter who said, at 330PM, that WTC7 was going to collapse, my suggestion would be that he assessed the situation and determined that an untreated fire for 5-6 hours was likely going to cause WTC7 to collapse, especially when he saw it was damaged and leaning.

If it was some average joe who said, at 1130AM that WTC7 collapse was imminent, I would say he was guessing, or was a sekrit agent.;)

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Nice dodge.

For example....

If it was a media person who said, at 330PM, that WTC7 was going to collapse, my suggestion would be that they got such info from reports from firefighters or other experts.

If it was a firefighter who said, at 330PM, that WTC7 was going to collapse, my suggestion would be that he assessed the situation and determined that an untreated fire for 5-6 hours was likely going to cause WTC7 to collapse, especially when he saw it was damaged and leaning.

If it was some average joe who said, at 1130AM that WTC7 collapse was imminent, I would say he was guessing, or was a sekrit agent.;)

TAM:)
Click to expand...

wtc7 was not leaning.
 
cooperman said:
What were the signs of collapse?
Click to expand...

Do you read what we are posting? For the second time:

FDNY Chief Hayden explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning tocollapse as early as 2:00PM.

FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Click to expand...
 
T.A.M. said:
Is that the entirety of your reply to my post? You agree with everything else then?????

TAM:)
Click to expand...

No, I disagree entirely but there is hardly much point in going round in circles. I do not believe that that everyone at the scene made a lucky guess that building 7 was about to collapse.
 
cooperman said:
I do not believe that that everyone at the scene made a lucky guess that building 7 was about to collapse.
Click to expand...

there are a plethera of videos, where folks on the street say the building is gonna come down.

are they all......"in on it"?
 
cooperman said:
No, I disagree entirely but there is hardly much point in going round in circles. I do not believe that that everyone at the scene made a lucky guess that building 7 was about to collapse.
Click to expand...


Training, not luck. For the third time:

FDNY Chief Hayden explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to collapse as early as 2:00PM.

FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Click to expand...
 
cooperman said:
What evidence do you have that it was leaning?
Click to expand...

It wasn't leaning, it was bulging.

Do read what we are posting? For the fourth time:

FDNY Chief Hayden explains how they knew that WTC7 was beginning to collapse as early as 2:00PM.

FDNY Chief Hayden sighting it with a surveyor's transit: .. we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o'clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom