'What about building 7'?

[GlennB]

Ok, so how does this admission change MM's timeline given here?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=10238282#post10238282

still looking back ...

...

right, by then MM had conceded that J broke the window *after* the collapses, but then proceeded to invent a pile of bollocks in the post you quote. I thought he'd conceded the point after that quote.

 

[DGM]

Yes.

Jennings' claim that their retreat and return, twice, was down to the tower collapses is wrong by MM's own admission.

This leaves us with J+H on the 8th for 30 minutes yet never noting the collapse of either tower.

Breathtaking illogicality.

Are you saying that if you just experienced a huge explosion, darkness and smoke, you wouldn't just go up two floors and chill out for half an hour before seeking help?

 

[Gamolon]

still looking back ...

...

right, by then MM had conceded that J broke the window *after* the collapses, but then proceeded to invent a pile of bollocks in the post you quote. I thought he'd conceded the point after that quote.

I looked back between the post I quoted from MM and now and I don't see MM retracting the fact that he thinks Jennings broke the 8th floor windows after 10:28 am.

If you or anyone sees otherwise, please point me in the right direction.

 

[Gamolon]

I think that should be about right. But that does not necessarily indicate which stairwell they used, in my view.

In this New York Times article from 1999, about the preparations for a potential Y2K-crisis, they have a graphic showing even more of the EOC, and were the different agencies were seated. According to the graphic NYCHA would be sitting in the east half of the operations room. I would guess that Jennings would go to his designated work station to make his telephone calls; likely having a telephone list there with numbers he needed, or numbers on speed dial(this taking place some time after the collapse of WTC 2, as I reasoned in an earlier post). And it also looks as though both doors leads out to the same corridor.

In the Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas interview it may sound like Hess was already outside looking for the stairs, while Jennings was making phone calls. I find it just as likely that they went for east stairwell, it would be close to both exits from the main room. There is also other reasons to assume that they went down the east stairwell, as I described in an earlier post:



For the use of the west stairwell see NIST NCSTAR 1-9 page 296. So that is my reasoning on this.

My reasoning is this.

Since the EOC was locked, they came back up the freight elevator and entered the southwest entrance of the EOC when the person they were with unlocked it. This southwest entrance is right next to the freight elevator they would have taken AND the west stairwell.

The person that unlocked the southwest entrance to the EOC left them there in the EOC to go elsewhere. I am assuming that Jennings would use the nearest phone to the entrance to start making his calls while Hess goes to look for a staircase.

(Interesting point here. Why would Hess go looking for a staircase to go down 23 floors if the elevators were still working and there was no immediate danger?)

Hess comes back in the EOC southwest entrance that was unlocked and says he found the stairwell right around the corner.

They descend and experience the blocked stairwell on the 6th floor. They then go back to the 8th floor travel east, south of the elevator bays, then head north to the northeast office.

 

[DGM]

I looked back between the post I quoted from MM and now and I don't see MM retracting the fact that he thinks Jennings broke the 8th floor windows after 10:28 am.

If you or anyone sees otherwise, please point me in the right direction.

Good luck getting him to accept the fact his accepting this adds 30+ minutes of time between the 6th floor explosion and them seeking help. Maybe they were just so freaked out they had to chill for a while.

 

[jaydeehess]

Hell I agree that J broke the window after the collapse of WTC1.

 

[Africanus]

I am assuming that Jennings would use the nearest phone to the entrance to start making his calls while Hess goes to look for a staircase.

I think, that these events did not happen simultaneously. In the LC interview Jennings said:

After I called several individuals, one individual told me that, um "to leave, and leave right away." Mr. Hess came running back in. He said "we're the only ones up here, we gotta get out of here." He found the stairwell.

To me it seems that Hess was looking in the EOC or even the complete floor if someone else is there. Norseman postet a map of the EOC that showed the watch command, one conference room and a press room inside the EOC. So it seems plausible that Hess searches this venues. BTW, it seems that the press room could only be entered from outside the EOC, couldn't he?

Therefore I think, that Hess looked for the stairwells after they left the EOC.

 

[GlennB]

I looked back between the post I quoted from MM and now and I don't see MM retracting the fact that he thinks Jennings broke the 8th floor windows after 10:28 am.

If you or anyone sees otherwise, please point me in the right direction.

He hasn't retracted that admission, afaics.

 

[Miragememories]

"But MM has accepted that Mr. Jennings waited 30 minutes before breaking that window, so he could have used either stairwell before breaking it, noticing both towers aloft during that period.

However, this allows for Mr. Jennings to have used the W stairwell, becoming vulnerable to serious effects from WTC1's collapse.

My own view is that Jennings, distraught and seriously confused though he surely was, was also embellishing and dramatising the whole business. People do that.

You know a lot about embellishing, don't you Glenn. I edited your above post for conciseness. Fewer words, same point.

A big problem communicating here is the failure of people to imagine what it must have been like for Mr. Jennings.

Until he was driven by desperation to break out those windows, Mr. Jennings believed the problem he faced centered around 7 WTC.

He knew there had been an explosion below the 6th floor stairwell landing followed by a darkened stairwell, smoke, soot and further explosions.

Mr. Jennings insisted that he saw, and confirmed this sighting (even when advised that many would interpret his 6th floor explosion experience as the collapse of 1 WTC), that both the WTC twin towers were still standing when he arrived at the 8th floor.

How he spent the 30+ minutes after that sighting is unknown.

I suspect he mostly awaited the re-arrival of 7 WTC employees or rescue workers.

Why did he not try the other stairwell?

I do not know, though his rescuer claimed that it was obstructed as well.

Why did he not break out a window when he first arrived at the 8th floor?

Well, most likely because he had not yet realized the full seriousness of his situation, and naturally was hesitant to start smashing windows.

Remember, in his mind the only outside emergency was a small plane flying into 1 WTC. That is all he, or Mr. Hess yet knew.

Mr. Hess didn't say the lights flickered. The NIST did.

Mr. Hess said the lights went out. He omitted the lights going back on soon in his one-sentence summary, but we know they did.

Catalano "said the generators automatically went on for 27 minutes when the building shakes. So once the first tower fell and the smoke cleared, the building was lit." Consistent with flickering of the lights.

NIST said:

"Two New York City employees had gone to the OEM Center on the 23rd floor and found no one there.¹⁶ As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs, the lights inside WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At that point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."
¹⁶WTC 7 Interviews 2041604 and 1041704, spring 2004.

Can I see interviews 2041604 and 1041704 that you use as a basis to say that Mr. Hess didn't say that? Because if you aren't using them, you have no basis for your claim.

We have the NIST claiming the lights not only "flickered", but that at the same time, "WTC 2 collapsed".

Mr. Hess did not know that WTC 2 collapsed, so that is a NIST claim, and not a Mr. Hess claim.

Publicly, Mr. Hess did not say the lights flickered, so if NIST obtained that information from a private interview, it means Mr. Hess contradicted his previous claim where he said the power went out for the whole building as he and Mr. Jennings were about to evacuate the 23rd floor.

Mr. Hess didn't say he went back to the elevators to evacuate. The NIST said he did.

Are you sure he didn't?

Do you have his interview with NIST?

All you can say for sure is he didn't in the interviews posted in this thread so far.

In a private, unpublished interview with the NIST, Mr. Hess might have confessed to assassinating JFK for all I know.

All we have is Mr. Hess's public record where he makes no claim about going back to the elevators in an attempt to evacuate.

As I posted earlier, it is my understanding that in an emergency evacuation situation, building occupants are told to not use the elevators but evacuate via the stairs.

I am not disputing Mike Catalano's statement.

It is your interpretation of the timeline that is problematic.

It does not take 30 minutes to evacuate from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor. AJM claims he made a similar descent in 2 minutes.

An explosion from below the 6th floor landing could have severed the stairwell wiring to the lighting.

MY timeline is problematic?

Yours requires that at the time the staircase went blocked, the building had a considerable number of people who didn't report any event such as the explosion you claim.

It requires Jennings and Hess to not even consider for a moment the (fully working) elevators for evacuation during the, at least, 30 minutes since they went back to the 8th floor to the time they broke the windows, in an emergency situation caused by the "impact of a small plane".

It requires all the occupants of the building at the time to be completely trapped together with Jennings and Hess, for the same reasons they were, except by use of the elevators.

That includes the elevator technicians and the people that were later trapped in the elevator when WTC2 collapsed and the power went out as the generators started.

That's far more problematic than the descent of an old man and an overweight man taking 30 minutes because of having to take air due to the smoke in the stairwell.

Actually around the time that Mr. Jennings experienced the explosion, all indications were that most of the building's occupants had evacuated.

Again, you are failing to appreciate the fact that Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess were evacuating under emergency conditions. They had already seen for themselves that EOC had been evacuated and it was further driven home when Mr. Jenning's superior told him to leave, and leave immediately.

It is standard evacuation procedure to not use elevators during an emergency evacuation.

The record shows that most of the building occupants knew this, including the chief engineer Mike Catalano who also avoided the elevators, and took the stairs.

Additionally, you have no proof that in 2001, Mr. Jennings was at a body weight that handicapped his ability to rapidly descend the stairs.

It does not take 30 minutes to evacuate from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor.

AJM claims he made a similar descent in 2 minutes.

An explosion from below the 6th floor landing could have severed the stairwell wiring to the lighting.

There would still be light in the 8th floor and in the elevators, were that the case.

I have no reason to believe that the 8th floor did not have light when Mr. Jennings arrived there.

In his interview, he said "after" he arrived at the 8th floor it became dark.

If he had said "when" he arrived "it was" dark, you would have a point.

The fact that it only requires a fraction of 30 minutes to reach the 6th floor stairwell, establishes that the descent time could not possibly represent the activity of Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess, between the collapses of the two WTC towers.

Unless of course, they reached the 6th floor and waited about 20 minutes.

Or unless they have to pause every three flights to take air, as Hess reports: "Previously you could breathe for about three flights down."

What do you do when you can't breathe?

That statement is from Mr. Hess's 'politically correct' BBC interview several years later.

It was not corroborated by Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess doesn't elaborate.

Mr. Jennings claimed he was hurrying down the stairs, leaping as he went.

This does not sound like a man pacing himself because breathing was difficult.

Oddly, Mr. Hess made no mention of any building shake when 2 WTC was supposedly collapsing while he and Mr. Jennings were on the 23rd floor of 7 WTC.

Nor does Jennings at any time. That means nothing.

The lights going out and then the generator starting is the same story told by Catalano.

The WTC 2 collapse as the cause of the elevators ceasing to work is the same story told by Flanagan and Klaum.

It means a helluva lot.

You like to cite others but you are casually dismissive when the support for your argument goes the other way.

This is also part of the story told by Mike Catalano when 2 WTC collapsed;

"Then everything went pitch black.

The rumbling, the screeching, and the noises — you can’t imagine.

I really can’t describe it.

It was nasty.

I’m telling you the building was shaking."

No. Jennings does not report it at any time at all.

Therefore it's insignificant that he doesn't report it in particular while he was at floor 23.

Different people focus on different things when reporting their experiences.

People tend to report the most interesting attention grabbing experiences.

This is one of the most exciting things Mr. Hess observed when he arrived at the 23rd floor OEC.

Much more interesting than 5 to 10 seconds of building shake and explosive noise from the collapse of 2 WTC (had it been happening at that time).

"And looking through the window..uhm..the lights were on, I actually saw some donuts on a table.."

Unfortunately, the BBC decided nothing of greater interest occurred, so they made an edit and moved on to Mr. Hess's stairwell descent.

When they were in the stairwell, it was after the aircraft crashes into both of the WTC twin towers.

The fiery debris from those impacts created a number of ground fires. That, and whatever preceded the explosion they witnessed from the 6th floor might account for the air quality in the east stairwell.

You can't seriously claim that the contamination from the outside would have such a huge impact in the staircase's air.

It is a debatable point as to how bad the air was in the stairwell prior to the explosion below the 6th floor landing.

Mr. Jennings commented on it after the explosion. Mr. Hess commented on it before and during the explosion.

There is reason to believe the outside air at that time contributed to the less than ideal air quality inside that part of 7 WTC;

"The vents on the top of the building and on the 5th floor sucked in the air and jammed the generators and caused them to burn."

"In the minutes immediately following the aircraft impact, relatively small fires were observed at isolated locations around the periphery of the building...A large amount of small debris and dust was distributed on the streets around the WTC site following the impact. This material most likely came from portions of the dust clouds observed on the south, east, and north faces immediately following the aircraft impact...Small fires were present on the plaza many minutes after the aircraft impact. This debris and flaming material most likely fell primarily from the north face of WTC 2, since this side overlooked the plaza."

Unlike you with your armchair analysis, the NIST engineers had the expertise and several years to study this issue, using all the data available.

They had a lot of incentive to predict greater damage because it would make the resulting collapse hypothesis easier to develop.

NIST Figure 5-94 above shows their best estimate.

Keep in mind we are talking about a building with a footprint the size of a football field.

There are a lot of columns and reinforced elevator shafts between the inner periphery of the debris damage zone and the east side 6th floor stairwell landing.

Like I said, the smoke could have come in from outside fires caused by the fiery plane crash debris.

Yet they didn't, as JayDee has indicated previously. It's quite obvious the damage ran all the way from the top to the bottom of the building, yet NIST don't presume damage in the parts that were not visible.

Only the superficial damage is obvious.

There was no basis to assume that WTC debris fall blasted deep into 7 WTC, through the 6th floor columns, through heavily concrete-enshrouded elevator shafts, and then destroy an equally protected stairwell landing.

 

[Norseman]

I have no reason to believe that the 8th floor did not have light when Mr. Jennings arrived there.

In his interview, he said "after" he arrived at the 8th floor it became dark.

If he had said "when" he arrived "it was" dark, you would have a point.

How many times is it necessary to point out to you that he said "was" not became".

Again from your own transcript:

"After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark.
It was dark.
And it was very very hot.
VERY hot.
I asked Mr. Hess to test the phones as I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows."

YouTube video at 4:27.

 

[GlennB]

I edited your above post for conciseness. Fewer words, same point.

A big problem communicating here is the failure of people to imagine what it must have been like for Mr. Jennings.

Editing an already fairly brief post 'for conciseness' while posting yet another veritable wall of text, links, quotes, diagrams (all of your contributions of late have been in this style) is pretty ironic.

But, yes, I fully accept that Jennings appears to have been in a terrible state - fearful, confused, getting his facts and the order of events mixed up.

So please explain, for the umpteenth time of asking, why his claim about seeing both towers standing when on the 8th floor exempt from these considerations?

 

[Gamolon]

In his interview, he said "after" he arrived at the 8th floor it became dark.

If he had said "when" he arrived "it was" dark, you would have a point.

This is complete garbage as Barry Jennings did not say "it became dark"!

His exact quote:

After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark. It was dark and it was very, very hot. VERY hot

If he would have used the word "became" in his description, that would have meant he experienced a change in the environment such as going from light to dark or warm to hot. Using the word "was" means he entered that environment and that's the condition it was in after arriving there.

 

[Gamolon]

How many times is it necessary to point out to you that he said "was" not became".

He has to avoid the word "was" because it goes against what he believes. He did the same thing here except he uses the word "got".

Mr. Jennings states that "after" he got to the 8th floor, everything got dark.

Funny how MM can get the quotes correct when it supports his position.

 

[pgimeno]

We have the NIST claiming the lights not only "flickered", but that at the same time, "WTC 2 collapsed".

Yes, as Catalano told the commission. So it's obvious that NIST used multiple sources, and maybe a more complete interview with Hess.

"He said the generators automatically went on for 27 minutes when the building shakes. So once the first tower fell and the smoke cleared, the building was lit."

http://research.archives.gov/description/2609722

Mr. Hess did not know that WTC 2 collapsed, so that is a NIST claim, and not a Mr. Hess claim.

Publicly, Mr. Hess did not say the lights flickered, so if NIST obtained that information from a private interview, it means Mr. Hess contradicted his previous claim where he said the power went out for the whole building as he and Mr. Jennings were about to evacuate the 23rd floor.[/color]

It is a NIST conclusion based on multiple sources. You're basing your conclusions on Hess' one-sentence description. Poor.

Actually around the time that Mr. Jennings experienced the explosion, all indications were that most of the building's occupants had evacuated.

Which was not the case by the time WTC2 collapsed, so you have another problem with your timeline right there.

Both mechanics, with a combined 35 years of experience at Otis Elevator Co., were in the back of 7 World Trade, near an escalator between the third and fourth floor before the South Tower collapsed.

Suddenly, it became so dark it seemed like midnight in New York without street lights.
"I couldn't even see my hand in front of my face," Klaum said.

But there was work to be done immediately.

First there was the matter of a mid-rise elevator, Car #11, stuck near the lobby because of a power outage. Four people were inside, and they were understandably panicked.

"We're trained to talk to them and try to calm them down," Flanagan said. "I couldn't even see them from where I was. The car was in a blind hatch just above me, but I talked to them and told them I was going to get them out of there as soon as possible."

Flanagan went to the machine room to reset the car so that it could operate on emergency power.​

http://web.archive.org/web/20011222...orld.com/magazine/archive01/0112-005.html-ssi

More later.

 

[Miragememories]

Editing an already fairly brief post 'for conciseness' while posting yet another veritable wall of text, links, quotes, diagrams (all of your contributions of late have been in this style) is pretty ironic.

But, yes, I fully accept that Jennings appears to have been in a terrible state - fearful, confused, getting his facts and the order of events mixed up.

So please explain, for the umpteenth time of asking, why his claim about seeing both towers standing when on the 8th floor exempt from these considerations?

Not that I think there is a hope in hell that you will see it any differently, I will explain my view once more.

Mr. Jenning's whole horrific situation that day stemmed from a single 'seed' event.

A small plane crashing into 1 WTC.

Once inside 7 WTC, Mr. Jennings became cutoff from the ongoing event, and for him, time stopped.

From there on in, he faced question upon question and with no forth coming answers.

Why was the OEC completely empty during the kind of emergency that would normally find it fully staffed?

Why did the OEC staff evacuate in such a great hurry?

Why did his superior, upon learning that Mr. Jennings was in the OEC on the 23rd floor of 7 WTC, tell him to leave, and leave immediately?

Why was there an explosion below the 6th floor stairwell landing, so bad that it stopped further descent?

The only tangible bit of information Mr. Jennings had, and even that was inaccurate, was that 1 WTC had been damaged by a small plane crash.

Now I don't know about you Glenn, but if I was Mr. Jennings, having gone through all that he had, I would be looking for some sort of answer to the mystery that was enveloping me.

When I got to the 8th floor, I would want to take a look at 1 WTC and see if it held some clue as to what in hell was going on.

And that it was Mr. Jennings did.

In his interview, he was asked to re-consider this because the interviewer knew that others would try and make Mr. Jenning's timeline fit the official story timeline.

"It definitely happened before either tower fell and I'll tell you why.."

[Cutoff by helicopter passing overhead]

"Barry I'm sorry could you just wait for that chopper because this is vital! Because the whole Official Story, the whole reason that Building 7 collapsed allegedly, was because the North Tower fell onto it and caused damage. And what people are going to say, is they're going to say "Barry was hit by debris from the North Tower."

"No. What happened was - when we made it back to the 8th floor, --- as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked -- [he points] Two [pauses]..."

[He repeats again.]

"When I got to the 6th floor there was an explosion that forced us back to the 8th floor. Both buildings were still standing."

I believe he saw what he says he saw because this was no trivial matter.

Certainly eyewitnesses make mistakes all the time but they rarely get it all wrong.

The visual highlites are the easiest things to remember.

Believe what you want Glenn, but after all that Mr. Jennings had been through, when he got to the 8th floor and emphatically said he looked at the WTC twin towers and saw them standing, I find it difficult to believe that he was lying or imagining things.

 

[Spanx]

What's the point of all this ?

 

[carlitos]

“One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.”

― Diogenes Laërtius​

MM, it's been 13 years. Have you managed to cobble together a coherent account of what happened on 9/11/2001 in Shanksville, Boston, New York and Washington?

 

[DGM]

I believe he saw what he says he saw because this was no trivial matter.

Certainly eyewitnesses make mistakes all the time but they rarely get it all wrong.

The visual highlites are the easiest things to remember.

Believe what you want Glenn, but after all that Mr. Jennings had been through, when he got to the 8th floor and emphatically said he looked at the WTC twin towers and saw them standing, I find it difficult to believe that he was lying or imagining things.

So in your opinion, everyone else is wrong or in cahoots with NIST to "cover-ass"?

 

[Miragememories]

We have the NIST claiming the lights not only "flickered", but that at the same time, "WTC 2 collapsed".

Yes, as Catalano told the commission.

So it's obvious that NIST used multiple sources, and maybe a more complete interview with Hess.

"He said the generators automatically went on for 27 minutes when the building shakes. So once the first tower fell and the smoke cleared, the building was lit."

I do not dispute Mike Catalano.

But automatically is not the same as instantly.

It does appear that when 2 WTC collapsed there was a brief period of time before full power was restored by the emergency generators.

"That’s all I got. Then everything went pitch black.

The rumbling, the screeching, and the noises — you can’t imagine. I really can’t describe it. It was nasty. I’m telling you the building was shaking.

Ed Campbell saved my life. If I’d still been down on Vesey Street I’d have been killed. The people who were there — many didn’t make it. Now we’ve got me, Pete Mulroy, Doug Popola, Ron Friedman, and Diane, who works security, is screaming.

We just grabbed her and ran behind the wall and lay down and covered our heads. We thought we’re dead. What I expected next was a fireball. It sounded like a missile when that south tower came down. I love my wife and kids very much, but they didn’t come into my mind. I just thought we were dead. As a matter of fact, my friend Ron Friedman looked at me and said, “This is how we’re going to die?” That’s what went through my mind.

Later I asked Diane what made her scream. She said she saw bodies come flying through the air. We lay on the floor for a minute.

I thought we were dead. We were just waiting to die. And it passed. Everything got calm. It was pitch black.

There was dust. You can’t breathe. We all have our flashlights.

We smell smoke. The only way out is through that lobby that just collapsed. I said, “I’m not going that way.” We went up one floor, to the cafeteria on the fourth floor.

There are windows everywhere but you can’t see out them because a cloud has engulfed the building. It’s pitch black.

All of a sudden lights come on. Nine generators all start. They have 30 minutes of fuel to run.

I'm not sure where the NIST "flicker" came from.

But knowing what happened to the power inside 7 WTC when 2 WTC collapsed is not the same as proving that Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess were on the 23rd floor at that point in time.

Mr. Hess did not know that WTC 2 collapsed, so that is a NIST claim, and not a Mr. Hess claim.

Publicly, Mr. Hess did not say the lights flickered, so if NIST obtained that information from a private interview, it means Mr. Hess contradicted his previous claim where he said the power went out for the whole building as he and Mr. Jennings were about to evacuate the 23rd floor.

It is a NIST conclusion based on multiple sources. You're basing your conclusions on Hess' one-sentence description. Poor.

No.

I am basing that conclusion on what Mr. Hess and Mr. Jennings observed when given the opportunity to describe the most interesting thing they experienced while on the 23rd floor of 7 WTC.

Was it what all the other remaining occupants of 7 WTC observed;

"Then everything went pitch black.

The rumbling, the screeching, and the noises — you can’t imagine.

I really can’t describe it.

It was nasty.

I’m telling you the building was shaking."

No.

Mr. Hess observed some uneaten donuts.

Mr. Hess did claim a power outage but that is not corroborated by the NIST or Mr. Jennings.

Mr. Jennings observed smouldering coffee and half-eaten sandwiches.

And why didn't they also mention the pitch blackness, the rumbling, the screeching and the building shaking?

Simply because 2 WTC did not collapse during the time that Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess were on the 23rd floor of 7 WTC!

Actually around the time that Mr. Jennings experienced the explosion, all indications were that most of the building's occupants had evacuated.

Which was not the case by the time WTC2 collapsed, so you have another problem with your timeline right there.

Both mechanics, with a combined 35 years of experience at Otis Elevator Co., were in the back of 7 World Trade, near an escalator between the third and fourth floor before the South Tower collapsed.

Suddenly, it became so dark it seemed like midnight in New York without street lights.
...​

​

No.

The problem is your misrepresentation, or are you trying to suggest a few additional people represent a lot?.

Your quote about the elevator mechanics describes where they were and how they responded as 2 WTC collapsed.

You intentionally left out preceding sentences which clarified the time of their situation;

"As the world crashed around them, Joe Flanagan and Bob Klaum knew they had to keep calm while disaster unfolded.
Steel beams vaulted through windows, shattering everywhere. Chunks of concrete rained in spaces once safe. And in the face of all that, Flanagan and Klaum kept their heads clear.
Lives depended on it..."

This shows that it was at the time of the 2 WTC colapse and agrees with the period of time described by Mike Catalano when there was no power.

This does not agree with what was happening with Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess on the 23rd floor.

 

[DGM]

MM, bottom line, (and can end this endless go around)

Do you believe Mr Jennings could not possible be wrong about seeing the buildings intact after he experienced the explosion?

If yes, there's no point continuing with this.

If no, what proof would you need (besides a time machine to re-live the day)?

Let's please cut to the chase.