erwinl
Illuminator
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Except when the window previously is covered in dust. Dust which might have appeared there after the collapse of a nearby skyscraper?
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Except when the window previously is covered in dust. Dust which might have appeared there after the collapse of a nearby skyscraper?
Then why do you take as gospel the part that suggests the 'explosion', the dust and the smoke, happened while the Towers were still standing? What's special about that sequence?
Miragememories
Banned
Mr. Jenning's testimony places him inside the 7 WTC before 2 WTC was struck.
At that time he met Mr. Hess who remained in his company throughout most of the ordeal.
Mr. Hess corroborates this relationship.
He neither denies or confirms what was the time when he joined Mr. Jennings in the elevator to the OEM on the 23rd floor of 7 WTC.
It is very curious that in their zeal to align the Jennings account with the 'official story', the BBC interviewers did not ask (or edited out), any reference Mr. Hess might have made regarding when he arrived at 7 WTC.
Otherwise, the BBC were overly attentive about the timing of the incidents that followed the arrival of Jennings and Hess.
Having edited countless interviews, I cannot believe such a fundamental question would not have been asked.
Such as;
"Now tell us Mr. Hess, when did you first arrive at 7 WTC on 9/11? What did you observe at this time?"
These are obvious questions that had to be asked in order to align Mr. Hess's timeline with that of the official narrative.
I believe they were asked, but just like like Mr. Jenning's inconvenient answers, anything that didn't jive with the story the BBC wished to tell, was left on the cutting room floor.
I'm still not able to identify the part of Jennings account where he told that he was looking outside a southside window.
Could you please mark the part of Jennings testimony where he said that he looked out of a southside window?
NO, I'm puzzled by your strange interpretation of Jennings testimony and your unwillingness to answer my little question.
This interpretation of Jennings account doesn't make any sense at all! It would be an unrealistic behaviour for a trapped person to break out one or more one windows and not scan the outside for possible help. This applies even more as he was trapped inside a burning building!
ETA:
No, there are several witness accounts, that contradict Jennings testimony!
1. The account of Richard Bylicki
Bylicki was a police officer and a participant of the TRIPOD drill and he watched the impact of UA 175 into WTC 2 live!
Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/14274666/NYC-B14-OEM-Fdr-Richard-Bylicki-Request-for-Recognition-035
2. The account of Richard Zarillo
Zarrillo said that he was approaching Manhattan from Brooklyn and was at Brooklyn Bridge when the 2nd plane impact occured. He and Abdo Nahmod were assigned to the OEM by Chief Peruggia. Some Minutes after Zarrillo and Nahmod arrived at the OEM they were told to leave the EOC by a OEM staff member.
Source: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110161.PDF
I think it takes at least 15 minutes to get from Brooklyn Bridge to WTC 7 and into the 23rd floor. So I think the earliest time for Nahmod and Zarrillo to leave the EOC would be 9:30 a.m.
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Leaving a 17 minute window to get the call to him, for him to divert his drive to work, get up to the EOC and find it already empty. Clearly impossible and yet another nail in the coffin of Jennings' testimony, so what's your point here?
Yes, and that's your problem, you have no corroborating accounts, you just rely on Jennings testimony.
No, in fact Hess contradicts Jennings. In the TV interview with Frank Ucciardo, Hess states that he was trapped for one and a half hour. The interview was recorded at 11:58 a.m., so one and a half hour earlier would be 10:28 a.m., the time WTC 1 collapsed.
Yes, but to the best of my knowledge, Hess was never (publicly) asked when he joined Jennings.
It is as curious that the Loose Change crew never made an attempt to contact Hess.
I don't think you have any moral standing to claim others were deliberately misquoting to make things fit their narrative.
Gamolon
Master Poster
- Joined
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Jennings said he was on the 23rd floor when WTC2 was struck. He got a call on his cell while driving to work from someone telling him that a Cessna hit WTC1. WTC1 was hit at 8:46 am. WTC2 was hit at 9:03 am.
According to the above, from about 8:48 am (give a couple of minutes for someone to call him about WTC1 being struck) to 9:03 am, his actions were as follows:
1. Finish his drive to WTC7
2. Park his car
3. Get to into the lobby of WTC7
4. Take elevator to 23rd floor
5. Find the EM office is not accesible
6. Go back down 23 floors to the lobby
7. Find someone to get them into the EM office
8. Use the freight elevator to get them back to the 23rd floor
9. Enter the EM office
All that in 15 minutes?
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TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Is rubbish and worthless on its face. The only reason why I can't completely disregard everything he's said is there were two people who actually seen him in the building. If not for them, I would've rejected his fairy tale from the get go.
Miragememories
Banned
i cannot fathom why you cannot understand that the only way Mr. Jennings could arrive at the 8th floor of 7 WTC, look, and observe that both of the WTC twin towers were still standing, was for him to look through a south facing window.
There is nothing more that I can say about that.
Unrealistic?
If you know that it will be impossible for anyone you might see to hear your cries for help until you break a window, you will break the damn window.
Keep in mind, they had experienced one damaging explosion and were continuing to hear others.
They mentioned smoke but they did not observe fire.
Mr. Jennings said he was already on his way to work (7 WTC), and that traffic was "excellent".
I have no answers for questions about parking and why he did not encounter the people you cite.
It does seem improbable that he was in the OEM when 2 WTC was struck, but it also seems improbable that he arrived at 7 WTC quite a bit later, was not told about the 2nd attack, was not informed of the evacuations, and that both he and Mr. Hess arrived at the OEM just minutes before 2 WTC collapsed.
It is not like Mr. Jennings remained ignorant of the actual twin tower timeline that effected him.
He watched the News at length when he got home in the afternoon.
The interview he gave to LC was 6 years later. He had ample time to realize any errors he might have made and thus correct them.
It is also quite possible/probable that some of the "official" time markers were far from exact.
It was reported that much of 7 WTC was evacuated after the 1st plane hit.
The still hot coffees and half-eaten breakfasts in the OEM attested to how rapidly staff evacuated.
So, your argument is not based on actual evidence, but on the interpretation of Jennings testimony. That's of course one way to gather information, but I think it is not very convincing in our case.
Do you misunderstand my arguments accidently or on purpose?
I said that it is unrealistic to break out a window and not to look outside in response to your claim, that the breaking of the window does not necessarly mean that he looked outside. This is an unrealistic behaviour to me.
Jennings said that it was hot inside the building:
Heat is usually created by fires, so it seemed the most logical explanation to me that the building was already on fire.
Yes, but we neither know where he was when he received the call nor do we know how long it took until he reached the scene.
I have, he wasn't in the OEM-EOC at the time he stated but later.
If Jennings would have arrived at the time he said he arrived, he should have witnessed the evacuation of the building. It is known that the people left the building after the first impact, so he should have seen it.
Yes, and as I wrote above, Jennings should have seen this.
Well the OEM staff has a different point of view:
Source
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
The building was only partially evacuated(there was no order to evacuate at that time) before the second plane hit (9:03). Before that tenants were allowed to leave using regular exits. After 9:03 it was deemed too dangerous to leave through the normal exits and this created a back-up of people in the lobby. Some described it as being "packed like sardines". This took time to clear, and it was reported the building was mostly empty by 9:45. This is the time a few witnesses reported an announcement to evacuate initiated by a meeting in the OEM at 9:46.
Jennings was not in the building before 9:45.
Miragememories
Banned
Not interpretation!
There is no other possible meaning.
If you believe so, please state how his words stating upon arriving at the 8th floor, he looked and saw the WTC towers still standing, could have a different meaning than the one I took?
Since DGM is obviously monitoring, his disingenuous altering of this post is a good example of why I have to add members to my ignore list.
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Traffic that (early morning) morning was described a "very heavy". This reversed inbound after the two buildings were hit. Makes sense, everyone was leaving no one was coming in. When is inbound traffic ever light (or excellent) in NYC in the morning?
http://transweb.sjsu.edu/MTIportal/research/publications/documents/Sept11.book.htm
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Where were the 4-5000 occupants of the building, some of which wanted to leave? Remember this was after the first plane hit.
Looks like you need to open your mind.
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Jennings said:
So Jennings looked and saw both towers still standing, then he looks in two different directions and the buildings were gone? Sorry, but this part of the interview is quite cryptic and puzzling. And that's the reason why I have to reject your claim. His statement is far away from being the only possible explanation due to its confusing nature. I think he refers to building 7, as this statement is very similar to an earlier statement of him:
Miragememories
Banned
I accept that what he said afterwards was confusing and needed explaining in order to understand.
He was giving the interview apparently during his lunch break and they were rushed for time.
Regardless, there is still only one meaning for what he said about the status of the towers when he arrived at the 8th floor.
This was no slip of the tongue. His interviewers were concerned about this issue and went over it a second time just to make sure that Mr. Jennings was sure that the twin towers were indeed still standing when he arrived at the 8th floor.
It is a frustrating interview to watch.
Mr. Jennings was given too much freedom to talk about what interested him and not held to the order of events.
The fact remains, that he insisted that he SAW the twin towers standing when he reached the 8th floor.
There is no obvious reason why he would lie about such a thing.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
He wasn't lying. That's what he remembered. It's not accurate but to him it fits. Memory is not like a video recorder, that's why it needs to be considered along with known time-lines. Why do you close your mind to this?
Why do you ignore the evidence his time-line is wrong?
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