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'What about building 7'?

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I saw that you actually believe the column 79 growth due to thermal expansion played a part in the alleged walk-off. Okay, show us how much the column expanded at the 300 degree C temperature the NIST WTC 7 report said they were at on certain fire floors. Then show how you think that changes the analysis.

I would hope you realize the expansion would only affect the longitudinal angle and not the lateral and that is also contingent on whether or not column 44 was at the same temperature as column 79.

Point is the model is factoring that expansion in and your not.

A hand linear calculation can not discredit the NIST model, because you can not do a nonlinear milimeter by millimeter expansion of the steel on such a large model by hand, not possible to complex.

You are welcome to try good luck you will need it.
 
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I have looked at the big picture and tend to think it was settling thermite that caused the vehicle fires. The vehicles had a significant amount of plastic on their exterior which would have readily ignited and spread. The buildings weren't nearly as vulnerable as their exteriors don't contain flammable material.

The front of WTC7 suffered major damage. Why shouldn't your "thermite" enter there and find plentiful easily-inflammable materials, as opposed to the trivial amounts of difficult-to-ignite trim on a car?

However that all misses my point, which isn't whether WTC7 was hit by flaming debris but that the perps' plan required it to be hit, otherwise they lose the cover story for their CD. There could never be such a guarantee, leaving the building rigged with no explanation whatsoever for its eventual collapse. The perps would know this and not go for such an absurd plan.

Also, they had no reason to bring the building down in the first place.

It's all a delusion.
 
The front of WTC7 suffered major damage. Why shouldn't your "thermite" enter there and find plentiful easily-inflammable materials, as opposed to the trivial amounts of difficult-to-ignite trim on a car?

However that all misses my point, which isn't whether WTC7 was hit by flaming debris but that the perps' plan required it to be hit, otherwise they lose the cover story for their CD. There could never be such a guarantee, leaving the building rigged with no explanation whatsoever for its eventual collapse. The perps would know this and not go for such an absurd plan.

Also, they had no reason to bring the building down in the first place.

It's all a delusion.

47 stories of straw to grasp.
 
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There were 24 core columns in WTC 7. The fires in it were most likely due to arson as a cover for the collapse and their being set by the collapse of the North Tower is also a cover story.
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Originally Posted by Noah Fence[/FONT]
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The best and brightest twoof has to offer.

Tell you what kiddo. Give us your honest theory of the entire day's events and I'll donate a c note to your master, Gage. Everything has to tie into each other.

Sound fair?
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[FONT=&quot]Dawn of Man:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]200,000 BC, Homo Sapiens appears. 199,999 BC First NWO Congress, Windhoek, Namibia. 125,000 BC, Man masters fire. 124,999 BC, LXXVst NWO Congress studies applicability of fire as a cover story for explosives and false flag operations, Bnot Ya’akov Bridge, Israel.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]9/11/2001. NYPD and FDNY, under orders from Giuliani ignite vehicles around WTC site as a cover story for WTC3,4,5,6 catching on fire from the falling burning Twin Towers but Hess and Jennings stop for lox and bagels and arrive too late at Verizon and the Post Office to sprinkle thermite on them but in time to set alight WTC7 as a cover story for the collapse of the north tower onto it as a cover story for the demolition of the north tower as a cover story for the plane crashing into it as a cover story for the misdirection demolition of the south tower as a cover story for the plane crashing into it as a cover story for Larry Silverstein to collect enough insurance money to rebuild a much more expensive WTC7 with less rentable area years later but not enough to rebuild the WTC complex because he tried to pay the least amount of insurance but the lenders forced him to buy at least what the PANJ had and their existing bridge insurance had not been revised with the wrong wording on the policy so he got much less that what he should have to cover him in this plot; and as a cover story for NWO Clinton, Bush and Obama to steal rugs from Afghanistan and sand from Iraq.[/FONT]
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And that’s why WTC7 was silently blown up by the Red Cross.[/FONT]
 
I have looked at the big picture and tend to think it was settling thermite that caused the vehicle fires. The vehicles had a significant amount of plastic on their exterior which would have readily ignited and spread. The buildings weren't nearly as vulnerable as their exteriors don't contain flammable material.

What do you think caused those vehicle fires Redwood? And if you think it is the same thing that caused the fires in WTC 7 please explain what you think the mechanism would have been and why it wouldn't have affected the Post Office and Verizon buildings.

It is sad that you so easily use the word pathetic in a discussion with others.

Ridiculous thermite would be dispersed, hot oxidizing molten aluminum or steel dust would be a possibility, or fuel air blasts from carbon dust what ever hit those cars was oxidizing in air.
 
Details...when you sent me a video of you computer model of Building 7 and the column 79/girder connection; I give you a detailed breakdown the of the major errors and emission within your model. You called them minor nitpicks, clearly showing (like most 9/11 truthers) you have a closed mind, and are unwilling to look at the facts and evidence in a logical matter.

It's one of those irregular verbs. I point out major errors, you make minor nitpicks, NIST deliberately falsifies data.

Dave
 
Also, they had no reason to bring the building down in the first place.

Can anyone remember when Trutherism was all about WTC 1 and 2 and nobody in the Truther movement knew or cared about WTC 7?

It's all a delusion.

A delusion of relevance, certainly. The conclusions drawn by NIST, such as they are for WTC 7, have reached a degree of acceptance within the relevant professional, scientific, and academic communities that really can go no higher given the data everyone has to work with. Conversely despite bluster about European academics, threats of lawsuits, and a smattering of self-published nonsense, the critics have made almost no measurable impact -- to the point where they apparently aren't even seeking credibility along the same avenues. Sure, they'll go wallow in irrelevant details with third parties anywhere that welcomes them, but what ever comes of it? What can come of it? That happens because, by and large, the professional, scientific, and academic communities completely ignore them.
 
I saw that you actually believe the column 79 growth due to thermal expansion played a part in the alleged walk-off. Okay, show us how much the column expanded at the 300 degree C temperature the NIST WTC 7 report said they were at on certain fire floors. Then show how you think that changes the analysis.

I would hope you realize the expansion would only affect the longitudinal angle and not the lateral and that is also contingent on whether or not column 44 was at the same temperature as column 79.
Do you know what probable means?

Show your work, please detail your engineering work on WTC 7. Wait you only say all the core was gone, you can't say how, or who did it. darn, there goes that inside job pulitzer.
 
Another interesting point to add is that there were no fires in either the Post Office or Verizon buildings. They were on either side of WTC 7, like WTC 7 were about 350 feet away from the North Tower, and also had some small amount of debris damage, but no fires. This is while WTC 7 is alleged to have had fires started on ten floors by the North Tower collapse which we also need to believe somehow remained unseen for about two hours after the North Tower collapse.

Anyone who knows these details and still believes the story that the fires on ten stories in WTC 7 were started by the North Tower collapse has to be considered gullible.
What can you tell us about the status of the sprinkler system in these buildings?

I can tell you that in WTC7, the sprinkler system in the lower floors was fed by the city's main water supply, which was broken by the collapse of the towers, while in the top floors it was fed by tanks located in the roof, and it was working (which explains why there were no fires in the upper floors of WTC7).
 
Oystein, your post here is either disingenuous or your understanding is flawed.
Mine? Hmm.

First, you need to understand that the Verizon building suffered much of its damage from the collapse of WTC 7, which it was right next to,
Certainly correct

not from the North Tower, which is the situation I was talking about.
Not? Your claim - got evidence?

The point is that, it along with the Post Office building had no fires,
I understood that point. I made another: That you made false claim when you claimed "small damage".

yet strangely two hours after the North Tower collapsed WTC 7 had ten floors on fire which the now discredited NIST WTC 7 report tried to claim was due to the collapse of the North Tower. This is even though

- the building was 350 feet away.

- there was massive amounts of gypsum dust being poured onto the four or five floors with fires in the North Tower when it collapsed.

- there is no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 for nearly two hours after the North Tower collapsed.

- neither the Verizon or Post Office buildings had fires.
Well, I can't help it, but all that is reality as it was observed. Your point being?

As for your implication that charges cannot be shielded from fire, I would say they can, and that you have no idea and can't make that statement conclusively.
AE911T's "top European demolition expert" Danny Jowenko made that claim when explained why the twins could not possibly have been CDs. Did he have no idea?

There is also no need for wires with radio control. In addition, WTC 7 had 47 floors with 10 of them having been set on fire, so charges could be placed on floors where fires would not be set.
You claim that the core columns were blown up over eight (8) stories. I point out that there were fires on 7 and 8. There were also fires on 10 through ... ah too lazy to look up now - 13? The point being that this fire situation would preculde you from claiming eight (8) consecutive floors, unless you allow for floors 14-21, or higher (again, I won't bother to check if these floors were all sufficiently free from fires - you get my point, I hope). So why do you claim charges over eight (8) stories, rather than, say, six?

If you actually believe the fires in WTC 7 were caused by the collapse of the North Tower, please say

- why you think there was none in the Verizon or Post Office buildings.
Good luck? Generally speaking, the four faces of each tower fell outward perpendicular to the facade. The US Post Office building was mostly out of the way, but WTC7 was smack in the way of the north wall of Tower 1. You remember how many firefighters on the scene described the large gash that was ripped into the south face of Building 7 by toppling wall segments? I suppose that would have provided a convenient path for fiery debris to enter.
The Verizon had only a corner facing the WTC1 north face, and it seems to have had a stronger facade - to my best knowledge the walls did not rip open a large gash into the Verizon.

- how you think burning debris from four or five floors in the North Tower could stay lit with all of the gypsum raining on them during the collapse.
You are not seriously asking me to just accept your personal imagination and incredulity here, or are you??

- how you think this burning debris from the four or five fire floors in the North Tower could travel 350 feet to WTC 7.
Are you serious?? You have seen how wildly the towers fell all over the place? You have seen how high and how far the dust clouds travelled??

- why you think there was no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 for nearly two hours after the North Tower collapsed.
Lack of cameras coupled with the fact that no tons of liquid accelerants were dumped into #7. This, too, is an appeal to incredulity.
 
Since the NIST WTC 7 Report's collapse initiation hypothesis has been shown by hand calculations to be impossible if the omitted structural features were included.

Could you link to the publications where this was done? I don't remember any acknowledgement of this in the engineering community.

So far, the only thing I've seen is you baffling a bunch of laymen with your BS.
 
Could you link to the publications where this was done? I don't remember any acknowledgement of this in the engineering community.

I always love hearing how "hand calculations" overrule essential complexity. If "hand calculations" were valid investigation for this problem, why didn't the original investigators do it that way?

It's a thinly-veiled nod to standard conspiracism: no matter how complex the underlying science and practice is, the lone conspiracy theorist always manages to trump it using "simple calculations" that almost no one in the relevant field acknowledges.
 
I always love hearing how "hand calculations" overrule essential complexity. If "hand calculations" were valid investigation for this problem, why didn't the original investigators do it that way?

And I like the way the NIST WTC7 report is characterised as "now discredited," to which I can only reply: [citation needed].

Dave
 
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Gypsum dust would have put the fires out in the North Tower when it collapsed and anything burning from it would have never reached WTC 7 at 350 feet away. That is also why neither the Post Office or Verizon building had any fires. The fires on ten floors in WTC 7 had to be started by arson.

Arson also took out the entire SW corner of WTC7 as well? WTC5 was on fire and not much closer. 90 west burned as well. Lots of spooks running around planting explosives and setting fires. Is there anything you won't imvent just to keep on with inside jobby job?
 
Lack of cameras coupled with the fact that no tons of liquid accelerants were dumped into #7. This, too, is an appeal to incredulity.

Until the fires got larger even smoke would not be that noticable given the smoke and dust in the air from the towers and aftermath of collapse. Vehicles and other structures on fire, just have to see the video of Hess at the window to understand this.
 
Arson also took out the entire SW corner of WTC7 as well? WTC5 was on fire and not much closer. 90 west burned as well. Lots of spooks running around planting explosives and setting fires. Is there anything you won't imvent just to keep on with inside jobby job?
add the Deutsche Bank building. Was that arson also?
 
I suspect he'd go with the thermite as it seems to be his case for why other objects such as cars were set ablaze adjacent to the building. And - devil's advocate - there's no reason to think that "if" thermite was there it wouldn't ignite other objects. His "arson case" was outlined originally here. Everything I'm reading recently in this thread is almost an exact replica of what was discussed a year ago, right down to the girder walk off.

Part of his case also involves minimizing the "obviosusly small" WTC 1 fires lowering the likelihood of ignition of the building.
 
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