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Western Culture

Is there any way we could get Billiefan and Jal their own thread, so they could do battle in some kind of cut-and-paste death match?
 
From what I've heard from different friends of mine who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions.

1. Islam is a religious lifestyle, not just a quick Sunday morning church visit and a label. Although some Christians do pray before each meal and spend much time with their Bible, etc...many don't in the USA. Islam is something that can't be shunted into a few spare hours. You pray five times a day. Your dress code is affected, even your food choices are explained in the Qur'an. Many converts like it because they feel actively involved and as if they are truly religious.

2. For women, it is a big and welcome change from the "in your face" sexuality of western culture. Women are not required by the Qur'an to veil. They are required to dress modestly and it is *recommended* that they cover their hair. However, most do veil and some go farther with niquab (the face screen) or other traditional clothes (abaya, burqa, salwar kameez, etc). Women dressed like this consider themselves marked as religious women, not easy dates. They don't get hit on. No one gawks at their bodies. They are clearly off limits sexually and many that I personally know say it is liberating not to have to conform to western standards of sexy dress, makeup and spending so much time and money on appearence. You buy a five dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set.

3. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards.

That's what I got from the new Muslimah's group at Yahoo, Islamway women's board and a few other friends of mine. Stats taken by many college groups say that women convert 4 times more often then men.
 
Jal said:
From what I've heard from different friends of mine who have converted to Islam, there are a few main reasons for most conversions.

2. For women...you buy a five dollar hijab, put your hair in a ponytail and cover, wear long skirt and a tunic shirt -you're set.


Just what every women wants!

3. Islam is also growing because many people are not satisfied with Christianity. They feel it is too liberal, too fluid and changes for the culture. Islam on the other hand is more rigid and does not as a whole allow much for modern changes and the whims of society. Many like it because they feel other religions have loose standards.

Dam all those modern changes and soceital whims.

Stats taken by many college groups say that women convert 4 times more often then men.

Anonymous Authority - which college groups?
 
Jal's posting is another cut and paste from other forums. Who knows whose opinions these are originally. That is unfortunate as it casts a bad light on the information being presented. I think it is better to give some personal statements instead.

CAIR, the Council of America for Islamic Relations, did a survey of mosque attendence and practices: here. The survey is terrible about statistical analysis. For example, the survey itself was done by randomly selecting about half of the responses. A better statistic would come from just counting up all the responses, wouldn't it? The often genenerate new numbers by multiplying average percentages by population numbers again.

The majority of converts across America are "African-American" (I don't think any ethnic category is accurate), but this might be due to a large number of people either migrating from Nation of Islam, (which is different -- they have spacecrafts and evil scientists), to mainstream Islam. In my experience, I have seen many more "Anglo-Saxon" women converts than men. All of the ones I know wear a headscarf, but aren't required to. Talking to them, it is hard to qualify the reason for wearing it. I've come to the conclusion that it gives them a sense of security and identity in very stressful situations. I knew one Muslim woman, (in another country), who started wearing a headscarf after her mentor, (she has a Ph.D. in microbotony), died and she sufferred an illness herself. She made a complete turn from someone who didn't even know how to tie one to someone who wears it at all times in public. There is a sense of control, too. Most Americans think the headscarf is forced on Muslim women, but that is a generalization. It is true that many Muslim countries have insitutions that enforce it for Muslim women. But that doesn't exist at all in America. In fact, if a woman chooses to wear a headscarf, no person in the world has the authority to tell her not to wear it. In the past 2 years, Muslim women in America have sufferred even more than before. I've heard them mention Americans who shout threats out of their cars as they walk along the streets or teachers and businesses who treat them with more disdain than usual.
 
I have a hard time respecting anyone who changes their lifestyle because a murdering pedophile commands them to via the Qu'ran.
 
Read him his rights...

Tony said:
I have a hard time respecting anyone who changes their lifestyle because a murdering pedophile commands them to via the Qu'ran.

Wow! Argumentum ad Hominum (abusive?) in the wild!

Oh well, just read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, if that isn't too "liberal":

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

The nature of the founder of a religion isn't really at issue, (as so many founders have been slandered before). I believe everyone deserves respect and their rights, that's all.
 
Im not arguing against freedom of religion or freethought, I was stating my personal opinion.

believe everyone deserves respect and their rights, that's all.

Everyone deserves their rights, yes. But not everyone deserves respect.
 
swstephe:
Oh well, just read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, if that isn't too "liberal":

Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and article 18 in particular, is directly counter to the Koran and Shariah (Islamic law). For this reason, in 1990 the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam was adopted by the Foreign Ministers of the 55 state Organization of the Islamic Conference. Membership is restricted to states in which Islam is the official state religion or Muslims form the majority population.

Articles 24 and 25 of the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam state:

ARTICLE 24:
All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Shari’ah.

ARTICLE 25:
The Islamic Shari’ah is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this Declaration.

Here's what devout Muslims say about the UN's Declaration of Human Rights:

For those Muslims who may still be confused, we would ask them to study the history of the United Nations which was preceded by the League of Nations in Europe and which itself was preceded by a Christian alliance of countries, in the middle ages up until the 19th Century, opposed to the expansion of the then Islamic State i.e. Al-Khilafah or Othmani Khilafah (to be precise). Established upon the principles of freedom and democracy, the UN expounds the four freedoms emanating from the capitalist ideology, based upon secularism or the separation of divine law from political life. An examination of the 'UN Declaration of Human Rights' shows how the freedoms of 'expression', 'ownership', 'worship' and 'personal freedom' form the bedrock of the UN's constitution, all being alien to Islam, which, far from such anarchy, demands complete, exclusive and non-negotiable submission to the law of the creator, Allah (SWT).
 

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