West Ham Supporters Arrested For Free Speech

[manofthesea]

West Ham United (English Soccer giant) supporters have been arrested, threatened with bans and targeted for expressing free speech during a recent soccer game.

West Ham pledged to impose lifetime bans after some of its supporters were heard Sunday making chants about Adolf Hitler and also praising Italian club Lazio after an apparent anti-Semitic stabbing of a Tottenham fan on Wednesday in Rome ahead of a Europa League match.

Police had already arrested two fans at White Hart Lane for making Nazi-style salutes, described as a ''racially aggravated public order offense.'' The fans accepted police cautions, which are given to people who admit to minor offenses, but don't count as criminal convictions.

''West Ham United will take the strongest possible action against any of their supporters, including enforcing life bans from the club, that are found guilty of behavior which is categorically not condoned by West Ham United,'' the east London club said in a statement.

''Fans who indulge in ... behavior should be arrested, charged and banned,'' he said. ''We cannot have `the football family' ignoring, and therefore encouraging, mass Nazi chanting."

Worse yet, one of West Ham's best players is Israeli and profiting from the club while "objecting" to fan behavior.

''I was very disappointed to hear some of the songs yesterday and it was embarrassing,'' Israel midfielder Yossi Benayoun, who is on loan at West Ham from Chelsea, wrote on Twitter.

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/...nch-investigation-into-chants-at-match-112612

Some people really need a thicker skin. Does any really think these fans are Nazis and want Jews exterminated?
What's next, requiring all fans to wear pink?

 

[Fizil]

The actions of the police are a violation of the principle of free speech. The action of the ball club is not, they are perfectly within their rights as a private entity, to refuse to associate with speech they object to.

 

[fuelair]

The actions of the police are a violation of the principle of free speech. The action of the ball club is not, they are perfectly within their rights as a private entity, to refuse to associate with speech they object to.

Not English are you. I'm not either, but I know certain things that in the US are considered "free speech" are not there. Live, learn.

 

[Fizil]

Not English are you. I'm not either, but I know certain things that in the US are considered "free speech" are not there. Live, learn.

That is why I said principle, not right. The UK doesn't have the protections the US has, but the idea being talked about when free speech is brought up is usually the standard of free speech in the US.

 

[MikeG]

.........The UK doesn't have the protections the US has,...........

Justify this, please.

-

Your original post misses the fact that racist chanting, songs, abuse, gestures etc are specifically banned by ALL football clubs, and that there is a large on-going campaign to kick racism out of football, where it has been a big problem in the past. The campaign is working, and is backed by the police.

A decade or two back, every time a black player touched the ball, a section of the crowd chanted chimp noises. Is this the sort of free speech that you are bemoaning the loss of?

Mike

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Giant? Ha!

As an "English soccer" fan who attends matches every week I am more than happy that the club and the police have taken this action.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Tottenham is an area of London with a large Jewish community. West Ham are known as a club with a large number of Anti Semtitic fans.
Racist chanting aimed at Jews and Nazi salutes are deliberately inciting a public order offence. What has 'free speech' got to do with it?

As MikeG points out it used to be that fans would make monkey noises whenever a blakc player was on the pitch and black players had bananas thrown at them. So called 'fans' even did this to black players on their own team.

Does that come under your banner of 'Free Speech'?

 

[commandlinegamer]

Would Americans argue that builders on a construction site making catcalls to women walking down the street are free speech?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Why wouldn't it be?

 

[Multivac]

Good. They were not banned for exercising free speech, they were banned because they broke the rules of the football club.

If they can't behave like civilised human beings in a public place, then they should be banned. Free speech has nothing to do with behaving like racist *********.

 

[The Don]

That is why I said principle, not right.

It depends how you define free speech and where you draw the line between one person's right to say whatever they like against another person's right not to be threatened or abused.

The UK doesn't have the protections the US has,

The UK has different protections than the US. In the UK, people are generally protected from having to be subjected to racial or religious abuse. UK (and European) free to air channels air material that could only be shown on US subscription channels.

but the idea being talked about when free speech is brought up is usually the standard of free speech in the US.

Perhaps where you live or among the people to whom you speak, but in the rest of the world people tend to refer to the local norm. I know that many people in the US think that the US attitude to free speech is the gold standard but people in other countries don't think so.

 

[Sledge]

Anything bad happening to football fans is a good thing.

 

[Yorkie]

To me ‘free speech’ does not involve the use of aggressive words or actions that are calculated to be insulting or harmful to people.

To my mind the use of the Nazi salute, as well as being infantile, implies that the salutor holds the same anti-semitic and racial views as that of the National Socialists in Germany during the 1930’s and 40’s. This kind of thinking cannot have any place in any modern day society and must be dealt with and ridiculed at every opportunity.

I rather expect though that given the current state of education in the UK the perpetrators at the match do not have the slightest inkling of the massive and harrowing history that lies behind this salute. They were just idiots.

 

[Cleon]

Ultras. I just do not get it, and never will.

 

[MikeG]

Ultras. ...........

What does this mean?

Mike

 

[commandlinegamer]

What does this mean?

Mike

Ultras^WP - not necessarily synonymous with hooligans though.

 

[BStrong]

Would Americans argue that builders on a construction site making catcalls to women walking down the street are free speech?

Free speech yes, good taste no.

I'm a friend of this family:

http://www.nibbi.com/

If you work for the Nibbi brothers and catcall women otj, you won't be otj.

 

[Croydon Bob]

West Ham United (English Soccer giant)

Six words in and a total fail. 0/10. Must try harder.

 

[Beerina]

That is why I said principle, not right. The UK doesn't have the protections the US has, but the idea being talked about when free speech is brought up is usually the standard of free speech in the US.

No, that's not correct. You still have the rigt of free speech even if the entire world stand against you...and use force to take it away.

Rights aren't granted, since that implies people have the right to grant other people rights, which, philosophically, is a contradiction. They exist, and people recognize them civilly, or violate them. The philosophical nature is parsimonious and tidy.

 

[DreamingNaiad]

I'm not sure how arresting people doing Nazi salutes is any different from jailing someone for making fun of a kid with cerebral palsy :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...girl-10-cerebral-palsy.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Darn this oppression of scum!

And I'm not sure what you mean about the Israeli player. He should put up with this outrageous behaviour from a minority of fans because the club (which is also against this behaviour) is paying him? Huh?