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Well it's official.

a_unique_person said:
I expect that HAMAS will have to do the same, it has no choice.
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You don't understand. Sharon and the fundy jews did not desire to destroy every Arab in order to live in the West Bank and Gaza. How do I know that? There are still Arabs living peacefully inside Israel and Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza.

On the other hand Hamas does desire to destroy Israel so that they can turn the entire area into an Islamic waqf. Hamas is clear about that and I have linked the Hamas Covenant enough times that you can read what they stand for yourself. To embrace Israel would mean having Hamas reverse their entire ideology - a traitorous concept.
 
Darat said:
An example I've already brought up today - Northern Ireland. The British and Irish governments entered into direct talks with the terrorists - despite all the risks that entailed.
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A cynic might argue that the IRA simply decided to get out of the fighting-for-independence business to concentrate on it's core, money-making business, which is vice, smuggling, and protection rackets. In short, they've become a murderous criminal mafia gang which is still very much in power and a drag on the economy of NI.
 
Jocko said:
Perhaps a better line would have been "You know who you are." Dr. A seems to have already outed himself.
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(1) You are a liar. I have never asserted that "only a tiny, tiny minority of muslim extremists handed Hamas a landslide victory."

(2) You are a halfwit. Everyone who reads my posts can see that not only have I made no such assertion, but I have expressed extreme skepticism that anyone has.

(3) You are a coward. Without babbling out any more moronic lies, will you answer the question which you have been asked:

One name, please. Just one.

However, since it has become apparent that you are a halfwitted liar, I must also stipulate that you should also show us where this statement was made. Otherwise, we have only your word for it, and this is worthless --- there is nothing to stop you from babbling out your witless lies about some poster who is not reading this thread and cannot point out that you are a liar.

Indeed, I don't see why you didn't think of this yourself ... oh yes, of course, you're a halfwit. But surely, retarded though you are, you can see that of all the people whose opinions you could have spewed out lies about, the stupidest possible choice is to lie to me about my opinions. This goes beyond stupidity and mendacity into shrieking,gibbering insanity. How can you have hoped to deceive me about my own opinions?

So, without spewing out any more halfwitted lies --- one name, please. Just one. And a reference.
 
zenith-nadir said:
You don't understand. Sharon and the fundy jews did not desire to destroy every Arab in order to live in the West Bank and Gaza. How do I know that? There are still Arabs living peacefully inside Israel and Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza.

On the other hand Hamas does desire to destroy Israel so that they can turn the entire area into an Islamic waqf. Hamas is clear about that and I have linked the Hamas Covenant enough times that you can read what they stand for yourself. To embrace Israel would mean having Hamas reverse their entire ideology - a traitorous concept.
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There were significant numbers of Israelis and others calling Sharon a traitor. If a significant alternative to Hamas appears, eg, a reborn Fatah with the dead weight removed, then I would expect them to have a good chance of getting elected.
 
Darat said:
I absolutely agree it doesn't work well BUT it sometimes does work so all we can do is keep trying. Otherwise we have to say "OK the 'solution' is genocide".
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If Islam, the Religion of Shooting School Children Peace keeps on its present course of declaring war on the entire infidel world, the proper term would be "suicide", not genocide.
 
Dr Adequate said:
(1) You are a liar. I have never asserted that "only a tiny, tiny minority of muslim extremists handed Hamas a landslide victory."

(2) You are a halfwit. Everyone who reads my posts can see that not only have I made no such assertion, but I have expressed extreme skepticism that anyone has.

(3) You are a coward. Without babbling out any more moronic lies, will you answer the question which you have been asked:

One name, please. Just one.

However, since it has become apparent that you are a halfwitted liar, I must also stipulate that you should also show us where this statement was made. Otherwise, we have only your word for it, and this is worthless --- there is nothing to stop you from babbling out your witless lies about some poster who is not reading this thread and cannot point out that you are a liar.

Indeed, I don't see why you didn't think of this yourself ... oh yes, of course, you're a halfwit. But surely, retarded though you are, you can see that of all the people whose opinions you could have spewed out lies about, the stupidest possible choice is to lie to me about my opinions. This goes beyond stupidity and mendacity into shrieking,gibbering insanity. How can you have hoped to deceive me about my own opinions?

So, without spewing out any more halfwitted lies --- one name, please. Just one. And a reference.
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So much venom, so little meaning. Yep, you're outed all right.
 
BPSCG said:
If Islam, the Religion of Shooting School Children Peace keeps on its present course of declaring war on the entire infidel world, the proper term would be "suicide", not genocide.
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I'm finding it increasingly difficult to distinguish the rhetoric from the outrage society at JREF from the Jihadists....do you think this is a good thing? Personally I find it a bit scary....dehuminisation and chest beating being a common prelude to war....lets hope its just chickenhawks crowing eh?
 
So the logic here is, "so what if Hamas won an overwhelming vctory--it's still a tiny minority since the 3 million (or whatever) Palestinians who voted for it might be are only a tiny minority of all Muslims."

By this logic, of course, since there is no elections where all Muslims participate at once, every time the Islamists win or have a strong shwoing (in Algeria, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.) they are just "a tiny minority" of ALL Muslims, so it doesn't count.
 
Skeptic said:
So the logic here is, "so what if Hamas won an overwhelming vctory--it's still a tiny minority since the 3 million (or whatever) Palestinians who voted for it might be are only a tiny minority of all Muslims."

By this logic, of course, since there is no elections where all Muslims participate at once, every time the Islamists win or have a strong shwoing (in Algeria, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc.) they are just "a tiny minority" of ALL Muslims, so it doesn't count.
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well it is Jocko's claim...
"Everyone knows only a tiny, tiny minority of muslim extremists handed Hamas a landslide victory"

It must be his claim because he can't for the life of him remember anyone else ever saying it. He just says everyone knows it ...maybe you could help him out..did you say it, or can you find it stated anywhere?
 
a_unique_person said:
Note that one of the biggest forces behind the settlement movement in the end realised his aims were not achievable. I expect that HAMAS will have to do the same, it has no choice. For all the rhetoric it spews about Israel, Israel has nukes and won't go down without using them. It has to recognise Israel in the end.
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I'm not sure whether my disagreement with you on this point is good or bad: good becasue it means I don't think Israel would nuke Hamas (nukes have this nasty habit of not restricting their damage and fallout to small areas; nuke Ramallah, and Jerusalem suffers, too); bad because it means no progress is imminent.

Now, nuking Teheran, that's for a different thread. Where's webfusion when you need him?
 
Code: 
A top Hamas official said the militant group will not recognize Israel but 
[B]will abide, for now, by past agreements Palestinian leaders made with the Jewish state.[/B]

Well, in my opinion it is only a small step, but it is still something that they have always denied before. The recognition of Israel will be probably one of the last steps in any negotiations. It's the biggest chip the Palestinians have. And it would also officially declare "Palestine" lost.

I believe that the people in power in Israel and Palestine have already recognized that they cannot win by themselves. To make the step from this knowledge to a workable peace needs a firm connection to the reality of their countries. Hamas was very strong in charities in the west bank and Gaza (also of course in the terror trade). For Palestinians Hamas was always not just fighters but also teachers, cooks for the poor and other positive things. It is easy to look good if your only competition is one of the lousiest governments on Earth. Now they are in charge. Will they do better than Fatah? Unlikely, as long as they do not find a way to live with Israel. Quite a few terrorists made it into power in the world (Israel comes to mind), some were lousy, few were good. But they all had to change.

Quite often it is the hardliners that can make peace. They will not be easily called traitors. Menachim Begin, former terrorist, could make peace with Egypt.
 
Jocko said:
So much venom, so little meaning.
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This is a lie. My post has clear meaning, which I shall explain to you in simple terms:

You are lying to me about my opinion. This is a very silly thing to do, because everyone can see that what you are saying is a lie.

Yep, you're outed all right.
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Reciting a lie does not make it true.

I know that this is a hard concept for you to grasp.

By reciting what everyone can see is a halfwitted lie, all you achieve is to convince people that you have certain personal qualities which I am apparently not supposed to point out. But then, I don't need to.

Now, without lying, please answer the question.

One name. Just one.
 
+ bump +

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HAMAS is preparing to unleash an Iranian-supplied phalanx of QUDS-3 / GRAD missiles (with a 30km range). These truck-mounted multiple-launchers are being assembled and readied in Gaza for a total all-out attack upon the Israeli seaport of Ashdod, which previously was beyond the range of Palestinian ground-to-ground rockets such as the Qassem.

It's official -- HAMAS wants to escalate the conflict and force Israel to wage a more massive war than before, the expected results being international outrage and condemnation of Israel for "overreacting" to the introduction of these weapons into the combat theater.
 
The "all things equal" bovine male manure is a strawman. Do you actually believe that Israel should get exemption from criticism because the other side is, in the opinion of many, worse? Come on! :rolleyes:

Palestinian terrorism doesn't justify Israeli human rights abuses. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm I clear? Or is this level of nuance too complicated for the "Israel-right-or-wrong" crowd?
 
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