Well it's official.

[zenith-nadir]

...as if it wasn't already...

Official: Hamas Won't Recognize Israel

CAIRO, Egypt - A top Hamas official said the militant group will not recognize Israel but will abide, for now, by past agreements Palestinian leaders made with the Jewish state.

Abu Marzouk said any government set up by Hamas "will not make security arrangements with Israeli or hand over (Palestinians) who fire rockets (on Israel)." He also insisted the group would not recognize Israel.

How do you make peace with fundies who are even unwilling to recognize that you exsist? Concurrently how can a third party broker peace between fundies and Israel when the fundies are unwilling to recognize Israel exsists? And finally, How do you make peace with fundies who will not even arrest terrorists who fire rockets into Israel?

If the Palestinians who voted for Hamas didn't see this coming then they are delusional.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Meanwhile:

Shin Bet cracks Hamas terror cell

Members of a Hebron Hamas cell responsible for murdering of six Israelis and wounding eight in shooting attacks in 2005, were arrested last month by security forces, the Shin Bet revealed Monday.

Shakib Awiwi confessed to setting up the cell last year together with Mussa Vazouz on behalf of Hamas. Awiwi and Vazouz then recruited Jaber and the three underwent military training in preparation for shooting attacks.

PA tries to stop officials from fleeing

Several top Palestinian Authority officials have fled the West Bank and Gaza Strip since Hamas scored a landslide victory in the January 25 parliamentary election, PA security sources revealed on Sunday.

Palestinians estimate that over $1.5 billion have gone missing since the signing of the Oslo Accords.

The sources told The Jerusalem Post that the PA was planning to seek Interpol's assistance in tracking down and arresting the officials, who are suspected of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars of public funds.

 

[RandFan]

...as if it wasn't already...

How do you make peace with fundies who are even unwilling to recognize that you exsist? Concurrently how can a third party broker peace between fundies and Israel when the fundies are unwilling to recognize Israel exsists? And finally, How do you make peace with fundies who will not even arrest terrorists who fire rockets into Israel?

If the Palestinians who voted for Hamas didn't see this coming then they are delusional.

To those who believe that all things are equal in this struggle this is the one thing that belies that belief.

The Hamas position is a non-starter. It can only lead to more blood shed. And without a resolution the prospects for Palestinians are not good. If the Palestinians liked the past 50 years then good, they can expect more of the same. Poverty and death. To the Palestinians I say I have no more tears to shed. The Israelis simply are not going to go away. It just isn't happening. You are like the ant infected with the lancet fluke who crawls to the top of a blade of grass so it can be eaten by cow or sheep to perpetuate the life cycle of the lancet fluke.

You sacrifice yourself for ideals that only serve the ideals.

 

[Jocko]

...as if it wasn't already...

How do you make peace with fundies who are even unwilling to recognize that you exsist? Concurrently how can a third party broker peace between fundies and Israel when the fundies are unwilling to recognize Israel exsists? And finally, How do you make peace with fundies who will not even arrest terrorists who fire rockets into Israel?

If the Palestinians who voted for Hamas didn't see this coming then they are delusional.

I think it's time you stop perpetuating the racist hatred. Everyone knows only a tiny, tiny minority of muslim extremists handed Hamas a landslide victory.

Oh, wait... never mind.

Note to our more egalitarian posters: tiny minorities don't, as a rule, deliver landslide victories in elections.

 

[zenith-nadir]

The terribly bad part is because of the HAMAS ultimatum - not recognizing Israel - more will die, aid will eventually be cut off, Palestinians caught in between Hamas and the rest of the civilized world will suffer and the Palestinian state will remain only a dream. It's a tragedy that some people hate Israel more than they love peace for their own people.

 

[CFLarsen]

I think it's time you stop perpetuating the racist hatred. Everyone knows only a tiny, tiny minority of muslim extremists handed Hamas a landslide victory.

Oh, wait... never mind.

Note to our more egalitarian posters: tiny minorities don't, as a rule, deliver landslide victories in elections.

Who claims this?

Names, please.

 

[Jocko]

Who claims this?

Names, please.

Who claims what? That small minorities cannot hand over landslide elections? Basic friggin' mathematics, that's what. How's that for a name?

By the way, Claus, your country is enjoying a little bit of global support at the moment. Don't

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of rule 8.

it up, mmmkay?

 

[Darat]

...as if it wasn't already...

How do you make peace with fundies who are even unwilling to recognize that you exsist?

You don't but there is also no need for Israel to enter into war with them - Israel should deny them the benefit of even noticing them.

Concurrently how can a third party broker peace between fundies and Israel when the fundies are unwilling to recognize Israel exsists? And finally, How do you make peace with fundies who will not even arrest terrorists who fire rockets into Israel?

The same way it has always been done.

If the Palestinians who voted for Hamas didn't see this coming then they are delusional.

Agreed.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

[ZN:]Concurrently how can a third party broker peace between fundies and Israel when the fundies are unwilling to recognize Israel exsists?

[Darat:]The same way it has always been done.

That way doesn't seem to work so well.



(Not aimed at you; my cynicism just needed release)

 

[Hutch]

Who claims what? That small minorities cannot hand over landslide elections? Basic friggin' mathematics, that's what. How's that for a name?

I believe that Claus was referring to this part of your quote:

Note to our more egalitarian posters:

Italics mine.

And IMHO you knew that perfectly well and did the old political Sidestep shuffle..

 

[Just thinking]

You don't but there is also no need for Israel to enter into war with them - Israel should deny them the benefit of even noticing them.

I take it you mean politically, of course.

It's rather hard not to notice rockets and suicide bombers.

BTW -- if Hamas is the ruling power and claims responsibility for bombers and other terrorists' actions, aren't they then starting a war? Aren't these actions acts-of-war in themselves?

 

[BPSCG]

Israel should deny them the benefit of even noticing them.

"Holy #$%^, what was that?"
"What was what?"
"That explosion!"
"What explosion?"
"Right in front of us, where the bus was just a second ago!"
"I didn't see no bus."
"It's a Hamas attack!"
"Hamas?"
"The guys who run Palestine these days? Who swore to annihilate us?"
"Never noticed them..."

 

[Jocko]

You don't but there is also no need for Israel to enter into war with them - Israel should deny them the benefit of even noticing them.

Yeah, THERE'S that gung-ho, can-do attitude. That'll show Hamas!

The saddest thing of all, Darat, is that you don't see the humor in your own comments.

By the way, Darat, what was the "profanity" I used? You see that little figure above the "8" (ironically enough) on your keyboard? That's not actually a letter.

 

[Darat]

The terribly bad part is because of the HAMAS ultimatum - not recognizing Israel - more will die, aid will eventually be cut off, Palestinians caught in between Hamas and the rest of the civilized world will suffer and the Palestinian state will remain only a dream. It's a tragedy that some people hate Israel more than they love peace for their own people.

Sadly as I've said before I have to agree with your prediction. However I do hope that this dose of reality may eventually lead to better things.

 

[Darat]

That way doesn't seem to work so well.



(Not aimed at you; my cynicism just needed release)

I absolutely agree it doesn't work well BUT it sometimes does work so all we can do is keep trying. Otherwise we have to say "OK the 'solution' is genocide".

 

[Darat]

I take it you mean politically, of course.

It's rather hard not to notice rockets and suicide bombers.

BTW -- if Hamas is the ruling power and claims responsibility for bombers and other terrorists' actions, aren't they then starting a war? Aren't these actions acts-of-war in themselves?

Yes - but considering the one-sidedness of the military power... I outline my views in the opening post of this thread . (Unfortunately the thread has ended up down the well trodden and totally unproductive path that most threads about Israeli/Palestinian issues do in this section! )

 

[NoZed Avenger]

I absolutely agree it doesn't work well BUT it sometimes does work so all we can do is keep trying. Otherwise we have to say "OK the 'solution' is genocide".

I haven't noticed it working any time, though.

Sigh. Sometimes being a cynic is so darn *easy*.

 

[Darat]

Yeah, THERE'S that gung-ho, can-do attitude. That'll show Hamas!

The saddest thing of all, Darat, is that you don't see the humor in your own comments.

By the way, Darat, what was the "profanity" I used? You see that little figure above the "8" (ironically enough) on your keyboard? That's not actually a letter.

"Holy #$%^, what was that?"
"What was what?"
"That explosion!"
"What explosion?"
"Right in front of us, where the bus was just a second ago!"
"I didn't see no bus."
"It's a Hamas attack!"
"Hamas?"
"The guys who run Palestine these days? Who swore to annihilate us?"
"Never noticed them..."

I would suggest you read my full views about this in this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51106

 

[Darat]

I haven't noticed it working any time, though.

Sigh. Sometimes being a cynic is so darn *easy*.

An example I've already brought up today - Northern Ireland. The British and Irish governments entered into direct talks with the terrorists - despite all the risks that entailed.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Jocko --- now that Larsen's question has been explained to you, would you like to answer it?

One name, please. Just one.