gtc:
When an outsider sees a Palestinian blowing themselves up in Israel they don't see a fighter in a geopolitical war, they see a Muslim Fundamentalist.
The Fool:
Many of them are not muslim fundamentalists. Thier motivation is Palestinian nationalism.
gtc:
And yet the muslim fundamentalist terrorists and their supporters and the palestinian militants and their supporters speak for a large part with the one voice. How are we in the west to distinguish between the religious terrorists who use the language of geopolitical conflict to justify the atrocities they commit in Iraq, Egypt, Bali, Israel, London, NY and Madrid and the geopolitical terrorists who use the language of religous fundamentalism to justify their murder (with terms like martyr operations)? And why should we even care to distinguish between the two motivations for terrorism when both seem determined to link the motivations and both motivations lead to the same outcome of suicide bombing?
It doesn't take a zionist to make the connection for us. It needs a lot of work from the Palestinians and their supporters to silence the fundamentalists and cut out the rhetoric and establish a civil society before the connection can be broken.
gtc:
When outsiders see Israel they see a modern western democracy that is being attacked by fundamental islam.
The fool:
Some do, some don't.. Do you know of many modern western democracies that have different laws for citizens of different religions?
gtc:
That is a problem that the Israelis will have to deal with just as the Germans are having to deal with their citizenship rules and the Greeks have had to start considering and defining a difference between being Greek and being Greek Orthodox. Many western liberal countries have been founded on the basis of a country for a pre-exiting nation of people. It is an ongoing challenge for westen liberal countries to work out what it means to be a citizen of a particular country without being a member of a particular race, culture, religion or nation of people. This is an acute problem for Israel but countries such as France, Britain, the USA and Australia are dealing with it or will be forced to deal with it too. In the specific case of Israel it would be a problem that would be made much easier without the constant threat of attack from the people they need to come to an accomodation with. The Gaza pull out may also help here by showing a willingness to accept a two state solution.
gtc:
Do you think it odd that people in the West might think 'thank God, there's a couple of idiots who won't get the chance to blow themselves up on my bus,' when they see an Israeli jet blowing up a van full of rocket-armed militants?
The fool:
I don't find it odd but I do find it worrying when I see campaigns designed to polarise the many and varied regional issues and disputes into one...terrorism VS the world.
gtc:
The terrorists are doing a wonderful job of polarisation.
The fool;
Do you see the expansion of Israel as an unintended consequence of a war on Muslim fundamentalist terrorism?
gtc:
I support a two state solution but am neither an Israeli or Palestinian (or Jew or Muslim for what it matters) so obviously I have no say. If the terrorists end up creating a bigger stronger Israel then they will have noone to blame but themselves.
When an outsider sees a Palestinian blowing themselves up in Israel they don't see a fighter in a geopolitical war, they see a Muslim Fundamentalist.
The Fool:
Many of them are not muslim fundamentalists. Thier motivation is Palestinian nationalism.
gtc:
And yet the muslim fundamentalist terrorists and their supporters and the palestinian militants and their supporters speak for a large part with the one voice. How are we in the west to distinguish between the religious terrorists who use the language of geopolitical conflict to justify the atrocities they commit in Iraq, Egypt, Bali, Israel, London, NY and Madrid and the geopolitical terrorists who use the language of religous fundamentalism to justify their murder (with terms like martyr operations)? And why should we even care to distinguish between the two motivations for terrorism when both seem determined to link the motivations and both motivations lead to the same outcome of suicide bombing?
It doesn't take a zionist to make the connection for us. It needs a lot of work from the Palestinians and their supporters to silence the fundamentalists and cut out the rhetoric and establish a civil society before the connection can be broken.
gtc:
When outsiders see Israel they see a modern western democracy that is being attacked by fundamental islam.
The fool:
Some do, some don't.. Do you know of many modern western democracies that have different laws for citizens of different religions?
gtc:
That is a problem that the Israelis will have to deal with just as the Germans are having to deal with their citizenship rules and the Greeks have had to start considering and defining a difference between being Greek and being Greek Orthodox. Many western liberal countries have been founded on the basis of a country for a pre-exiting nation of people. It is an ongoing challenge for westen liberal countries to work out what it means to be a citizen of a particular country without being a member of a particular race, culture, religion or nation of people. This is an acute problem for Israel but countries such as France, Britain, the USA and Australia are dealing with it or will be forced to deal with it too. In the specific case of Israel it would be a problem that would be made much easier without the constant threat of attack from the people they need to come to an accomodation with. The Gaza pull out may also help here by showing a willingness to accept a two state solution.
gtc:
Do you think it odd that people in the West might think 'thank God, there's a couple of idiots who won't get the chance to blow themselves up on my bus,' when they see an Israeli jet blowing up a van full of rocket-armed militants?
The fool:
I don't find it odd but I do find it worrying when I see campaigns designed to polarise the many and varied regional issues and disputes into one...terrorism VS the world.
gtc:
The terrorists are doing a wonderful job of polarisation.
The fool;
Do you see the expansion of Israel as an unintended consequence of a war on Muslim fundamentalist terrorism?
gtc:
I support a two state solution but am neither an Israeli or Palestinian (or Jew or Muslim for what it matters) so obviously I have no say. If the terrorists end up creating a bigger stronger Israel then they will have noone to blame but themselves.
