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We Now Know When Jesus Returns

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The problem you must face-still not facing-is the fact the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation thus proving Jesus resurrected able to because He is God. And they clearly set up the churches based on their own eyewitness testimony of seeing the Lord Jesus resurrected. No way around it!
 
Resistible said:
Why does Luke need to claim he was an eyewitness? He said he gave a careful account from eyewitnesses. He was a doctor you know.
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But it is you who said the church was established by people including Luke who were eyewitnesses, and Luke wasn't one by his own admission.

And your last sentence indicates that your posts are all a joke, not so?
 
I never said Luke was an eyewitness but he was in close contact with several of the original eyewitness Apostles.

Paul said Luke was a doctor, nothing to counteract that, so it stands.
 
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Resistible said:
There are about 15 original papyrus still surviving from the 2nd century. Nobody else has this in antiquity.
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That's not contemporary.

Resistible said:
The problem you must face-still not facing-is the fact the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation...
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Sure there is. Perhaps they were mistaken. Perhaps they saw someone who was only pretending to be Jesus. If the disguise was good enough, they may well have believed to the core of their hearts that it really was Jesus. Perhaps it was a pranking time-traveller. Perhaps it was Jesus' twin brother. It doesn't matter.

Perhaps the disciples got together and conspired to tell everyone that Jesus was resurrected because they thought it would gain them some amount of political influence with the religious and/or secular authorities.

For your 'proof' to be convincing, the disciples must have honestly reported what they saw, it had to be honestly and genuinely recorded at the time (and most evidence suggests that it wasn't).

The point is that your 'proof' relies on a book - an old book to be sure - that says that these people said that they saw Jesus. That's hearsay. There's a very good reason why hearsay and eyewitness testimony are not considered to be good evidence in court.
 
The amount of evidence God provides is commensurate with a book of the size of the Bible with 66 books in it. If that is not enough evidence for you then tough tooties. It's enough for God so it is enough for me.
 
Resistible said:
I never said Luke was an eyewitness.
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In effect you just did
The problem you must face-still not facing-is the fact the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation thus proving Jesus resurrected able to because He is God. And they clearly set up the churches based on their own eyewitness testimony of seeing the Lord Jesus resurrected. No way around it!
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Well, there is a way round it if Luke was one of the setters up of the church, and was not an eyewitness. But I still incline to the view that this is all some kind of joke for entertainment purposes.
 
arthwollipot said:
Sure there is. Perhaps they were mistaken. Perhaps they saw someone who was only pretending to be Jesus. If the disguise was good enough, they may well have believed to the core of their hearts that it really was Jesus. Perhaps it was a pranking time-traveller. Perhaps it was Jesus' twin brother. It doesn't matter.
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They spent 3 years with Jesus then 40 days after He was raised from the dead. Jesus had no twin brother. You're telling me if you had a friend you were with most every day for the last 3 years that you would mistaken him for someone else?

Perhaps the disciples got together and conspired to tell everyone that Jesus was resurrected because they thought it would gain them some amount of political influence with the religious and/or secular authorities.
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People don't willingly die for a lie.
 
Craig B said:
In effect you just did Well, there is a way round it if Luke was one of the setters up of the church, and was not an eyewitness. But I still incline to the view that this is all some kind of joke for entertainment purposes.
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Luke was just one of many individuals involved. Find out who those other paticipants are by reading the NT. Luke would be setting up churches subsequent to the original eyewitnesses.
 
The problem you must face-still not facing-is the fact the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation thus proving Jesus resurrected able to because He is God. And they clearly set up the churches based on their own eyewitness testimony of seeing the Lord Jesus resurrected. No way around it!
 
Resistible said:
People don't willingly die for a lie.
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So you are saying that Muslims who happily die for Allah because they will go to Paradise, enter the Garden, and get 72 Houris each are correct. After all, people don't willingly die for a lie.

Norm
 
Resistible said:
They spent 3 years with Jesus then 40 days after He was raised from the dead. Jesus had no twin brother. You're telling me if you had a friend you were with most every day for the last 3 years that you would mistaken him for someone else?
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You're still missing it. They say they spent 3 years with Jesus. They say he had no brother. If you take away the testimony of the scriptures, there's absolutely no corroborating evidence for any of this.
 
Resistible said:
They spent 3 years with Jesus then 40 days after He was raised from the dead. Jesus had no twin brother. You're telling me if you had a friend you were with most every day for the last 3 years that you would mistaken him for someone else?
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Now I KNOW you're joking.

Luke 24
13 And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was threescore furlongs from Jerusalem. 14 And they communed with each other of all these things which had happened. 15 And it came to pass, while they communed and questioned together, that Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
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Matthew 28
16 But the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
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John 20
14 When (Mary Magdalene) had thus said, she turned herself back, and beholdeth Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
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John 21
4 But when day was now breaking, Jesus stood on the beach: yet the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
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So all the gospels have incidents in which the resurrected Jesus is not recognised by his closest companions (John has two) except Mark, which originally had no account of the post resurrection Jesus at all. The last 12 verses are a later interpolation. Mark is of course the earliest of the gospels. Dated c70 AD by most scholars. So you're talking total nonsense. Mary Magdalene for example mistook him for a gardener, and on other occasions nobody had any idea who he was.

People don't willingly die for a lie.
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Not the point. They may well die on account of a mistaken belief. Or because they put too much trust in Dr Luke the non eyewitness.
 
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Resistible said:
I am working to overcometh so hopefully I will be raptured Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets.
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Would you be willing to liquidate your assets and sign a post dated cheque to the JREF for their value? Payable on 15SEP2015 when your rapture, again, fails to occur.
 
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