We Now Know When Jesus Returns

[Resistible]

Truly a great earthquake if you take Haiti 2010 by itself or Japan 2011 by itself or both together.

 

[Flea2143]

Divide through by the population level.

Until you can disprove the official number of 316,000 we will stay at that number.

OK then, a report from the BBC cites discrepancies in the death toll calculations put forward by Haiti and the ones that the USAID came up with.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13606720
While this doesn't disprove the 316,000 figure, it does cast doubt on its accuracy, after all 46,000-85,000 is a fairly large leap from 316,000.

 

[Resistible]

You can find no naturalistic explanation to account for the origin of the disciples' eyewitness testimony seeing Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings.

 

[Resistible]

OK then

316,000 remains the official number until proven otherwise as the 2nd greatest number of deaths in history due to an earthquake.

Truly a great earthquake and 1st for deaths per capita at 1 in 27.

 

[Flea2143]

You can find no naturalistic explanation to account for the origin of the disciples' eyewitness testimony seeing Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings.

And you can provide no evidence that this actually happened.

 

[Resistible]

And you can provide no evidence that this actually happened.

The evidence is in the Scriptures; these are their records.

Paul said he spent 15 days with Peter and Peter gave him his eyewitness testimony.

 

[Flea2143]

The evidence is in the Scriptures; these are their records.

Paul said he spent 15 days with Peter and Peter gave him his eyewitness testimony.

The scriptures are not evidence that the scriptures are true, you need something extra-biblical to corroborate them.

 

[Resistible]

Did Peter lie to Paul? No. Did Paul lie about Peter? No. So what's the problem?

 

[fromdownunder]

How many times more must this energiser bunny be banned? Obvious sockpuppet is obvious.

http://biblocality.com/forums/content.php

Norm

 

[Resistible]

The scriptures are not evidence that the scriptures are true, you need something extra-biblical to corroborate them.

The Scriptures are evidence the Scriptures are true. You don't need extra-biblical. But we do have some extra biblical for example, Polycarp said he was a student of John and Clement of Rome said he knew Peter.

 

[Resistible]

If you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the original of the disciples' eyewitness testimony then accept they saw Jesus alive from the dead proving He is God.

 

[Flea2143]

316,000 remains the official number until proven otherwise as the 2nd greatest number of deaths in history due to an earthquake.

Truly a great earthquake and 1st for deaths per capita at 1 in 27.

The number is disputed, proving a death toll is nearly impossible. Also, the smaller number is more recent, and the article also states quite clearly that any comment on the death toll from that earthquake reflects the views of the author, meaning that we should be wary of any numbers put forward. Also, I haven't been able to find out how the 316,000 figure was determined, but the 45,000-86,000 figure was determined by surveys over a 29-day period.

 

[Craig B]

There is no better proof than the testimony of the disciples who spent 3 years with Jesus and set up the churches based on their eyewitness testimony. Since group hallucinations are impossible and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie, you can be sure Jesus raised Himself from the dead.

Eh? group hallucinations are perfectly possible. At any event they're much more possible than people being raised from the dead, let alone raising THEMSELVES from the dead, a remarkably implausible idea. If we want possibilities, how about this: Jesus was taken down from the cross because he was thought by a centurion without much medical training to be dead. Even today, people are on occasion wrongly diagnosed as dead. And John tells us that Pilate was surprised that Jesus had died so swiftly. The Romans therefore did not kill him on the cross, as they did to the others being executed. Later he recovered consciousness in the tomb.

I don't think that happened, because I think the whole resurrection story is false, but such things are known to happen, and so are infinitely more probable that the self-reanimation that you propose, if you are going to talk about what is possible or not.

 

[Resistible]

The number is disputed, proving a death toll is nearly impossible. Also, the smaller number is more recent, and the article also states quite clearly that any comment on the death toll from that earthquake reflects the views of the author, meaning that we should be wary of any numbers put forward. Also, I haven't been able to find out how the 316,000 figure was determined, but the 45,000-86,000 figure was determined by surveys over a 29-day period.

I go with the Haitian official number of 316,000. They would know.

 

[Aridas]

No, the you that you are now would have already happened since you claim you had an eternity to do so. So you should exist right now.

Actually, no. I'm not claiming anything. I'm examining the theoretical validity of your assumptions and pointing out that they aren't as solid as you seem to think. But sure, I exist in "now." "I," or rather, something indistinguishable from me in any and all ways that matter, could, theoretically, even exist in many places throughout even the known universe, *right now,* with no bearing on this "me," even without a creator, nor need to say that because something indistinguishable from the current "me" existed in the past, infinite regress cannot theoretically be the case. The two simply don't have that kind of relationship.

Again, I suggest actually understanding what you're talking about before you try to argue. Especially in a place like this. Comprehension takes time, either way, and I think that you've been too busy posting here to really even start to digest the information coming at you. Perhaps you should step back for a few days or even weeks to ponder and explore the information and concepts that you've been exposed to, already, in this thread? There's no shame in that, at all. If you continue to disagree and can formulate your objections, feel free to say why, and discussions can certainly continue then.

 

[Resistible]

group hallucinations are perfectly possible.

There are no cases in history of group hallucinations and in the DM-4 manual also no record of such cases.

 

[Flea2143]

If you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the original of the disciples' eyewitness testimony then accept they saw Jesus alive from the dead proving He is God.

My explanation is that it never happened. The scriptures cannot prove themselves.

 

[Resistible]

My explanation is that it never happened. The scriptures cannot prove themselves.

Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity so if He didn't happen then you shouldn't exist.

 

[Flea2143]

I go with the Haitian official number of 316,000. They would know.

Or, they would want billions of dollars in foreign aid, which is much easier to obtain with a higher death toll.

 

[Resistible]

Or, they would want billions of dollars in foreign aid, which is much easier to obtain with a higher death toll.

316,000 2nd greatest in history and greatest in deaths per capita 1 in 27.

Truly a great earthquake.