Waterboarding Rocks!

[leftysergeant]

Because Upchurch has no moral clarity. Because he subscribes to moral equivalence.

Don't lecture us about moral clarity. Upchurch displays perfect moral clarity. Torture is evil He refuses to endorse it.

You choose to endorse an evil practise known not to work. Endorsement of evil is not moral clarity, it is evil depravity.

 

[The Painter]

Yes torture is evil. It never works . Only evil, immoral people use it As we all know torture NEVER works. Wait.... What...... what happened here????????

including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

What????? How can this be????? OH yeah, it worked. Thousands of people are alive today because it worked. Good. I would pull your fingernails and toenails out very slowly with pliers if it stops this.

 

[BeAChooser]

Hitchens said that, not me. Take it up with him.

Then Hitchens was wrong, and you were unwise to quote him as if he was saying something meaningful.

 

[leftysergeant]

Pot Kettle Black.

But since you want to get into this, jj, do you mind answering a question?

Do you see a moral difference between inflicting temporary pain and discomfort on one probably guilty person in order to save hundreds of thousands of lives, and allowing the murder of hundreds of thousands of lives to take place by not doing that?

Again with the false dichotomy! Oy!

Inflicting anything on a person SUSPECTED but not proven guilty of anything is evil. If you allow law enforcement any slightest leeway in deciding whether to torture or not, anger will lead them to do a lot of pointless tortutring, which will lewad to a lot of false convictions, which leads to a lot of deaths and destruction.

Your advocacy of torture is, in itself, a threat to our freedomm and survival.

I'll assume silence means your answer is "no".

Silence on the internet more often means that the adult with a life has not yet had time to get back to the evil troll, having more important things to do. This fact seems not to register with those with an IQ lower than a doorknob"s.

 

[leftysergeant]

Yes torture is evil. It never works . Only evil, immoral people use it As we all know torture NEVER works. Wait.... What...... what happened here????????

Only ignotrant evil people take the word of a war criminal that the evidsence against KSM was obtained by waterboarding.

The man who identified KSM got his intel in compliance with the Army FM. Thew people who waterboarded KSM just needed a confession to link Saddam and Osama. Didn't work, did it?



What????? How can this be????? OH yeah, it worked. Thousands of people are alive today because it worked. Good. I would pull your fingernails and toenails out very slowly with pliers if it stops this.

[qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Lexapro/111wtcreutersitaly-1.jpg[/qimg]

Shove that someplace else. Who would you have waterboarded to prevent it? Would you have prevented it? I doubt it. Being evil does not defend us from evil.

 

[tsig]

And even if information was the goal, you still wouldn't waterboard to save 100,000 lives.

What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world yet lose his soul?

 

[The Painter]

Shove that someplace else. Who would you have waterboarded to prevent it? Would you have prevented it? I doubt it. Being evil does not defend us from evil.

A lot of questions., and yet no answers.

Ever hear of fighting fire with fire???? You know you burn a fire break. It stops the fire from spreading.

Let's keep it a bit more civil, shall we?

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

 

[SezMe]

What????? How can this be????? OH yeah, it worked. Thousands of people are alive today because it worked. Good. I would pull your fingernails and toenails out very slowly with pliers if it stops this.

OMG, you really put your foot in it this time.

From an official Bush White House release:

In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

When was Sheikh Mohammed captured? March, 2003.

Get back under your rock, Painter.

 

[BeAChooser]

Why do you keep repeating your strawman made out from a completely unrealistic hypothetical?

So Hawk one, would you please answer my question (you know what it is). Prove to us that you are not an adherent to the notion of moral equivalence. That you can distinguish between degrees of evil ... shades of bad.

Considering the facts from the real world say that a) waterboarding is torture and b) torture doesn't work as well as other interrogation methods

Definitions are mutable. The real world tomorrow could decide that waterboarding isn't torture. Certainly, not all tortures are morally equivalent. Or do you believe they are?

And it certainly hasn't been proven that waterboarding doesn't work. All we have at this time are conflicting statements from several experts. One set of statements would indicate that waterboarding worked quite well in getting 3 top al-Qaeda operatives to quickly give up valuable information after weeks of trying to learn things using conventional approaches had failed.

Now maybe that's true and maybe it isn't. The only way to resolve this is for Obama to release all the information needed to decide. If he doesn't, I can only think of one reason that he wouldn't ... that he'd find it politically embarrassing because it would show waterboarding does work and some of his supporters lied.

I'm interested in the truth, which is why I've called on him to release the reports and data needed to resolve this. If it turns out the CIA and the Bush Administration lied, I'll be in front of the line demanding they be punished for lying. If on the other hand, some FBI agents have fabricated a story, then I would expect the same response from you regarding their treatment. And I would expect a rational reassessment of our use of waterboarding in certain situations.

I'm surprised anyone but the most morally disgusting and sadistic creatures of the planet would still support it.

Is that a backhanded way of trying to call me a most morally disgusting and sadistic creature? Tell you what, why don't you answer the question you object to so we can know if you even understand the word moral.

 

[leftysergeant]

A lot of questions., and yet no answers.

Ever hear of fighting fire with fire???? You know you burn a fire break. It stops the fire from spreading.


Up your ass??? Come here. Bend over. I'll be happy to oblige you.

Just because somebody did something evil to us, we have the right to be evil, maybe? I think not.

 

[Upchurch]

Expound upon this please.

Valkyrie. Though based on real events, "good Nazis" were the exception, not the rule.

 

[Upchurch]

I finally figured out what BAC's argument was reminding me of.

I was getting there, too. I was just trying to figure out how to reword it.

 

[BeAChooser]

So you grant the government the to right to torture-- to inflict pain and suffering on individuals for the good of the many-- but not the right to regulate the economy, placing limitations on business actions for the good of the many.

So joobz ... you want to join this too. Fine. This thread is becoming more revealing all the time. Why don't we start by your answering my question? Would you subject a single person (believed to be a bad guy) to temporary pain and discomfort, if you believed that person knew where a bomb is located ... a bomb which is feared will be detonated in a few hours and potentially kill a hundred thousand people? Yes or no?

 

[leftysergeant]

I was getting there, too. I was just trying to figure out how to reword it.

Because soldiers like Schtuelpnagel and Rommel realized that they were serving an evil regime, they rebelled.

You resort to evil tactics, you risk losing any imperative to govern.

The GOP is not worthy of serving in government if they do not throw Yoo, Rummy and that disgusting former VP under the bus and make sure they get all ten tires.

 

[BeAChooser]

/BAC

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Care to answer the question I posed to joobz?

 

[leftysergeant]

Yes or no?

You are begining to show some sort of obsession here. You can't win an arguement by planting clues that you are not thinking clearly.

You have been told that your blather is wack. Yet you keep saying it, thinking that you will shame the adults.

Do you know what Einstein said about people who do the same thing over and over and expect a different result?

 

[The Painter]

OMG, you really put your foot in it this time.

From an official Bush White House release:



When was Sheikh Mohammed captured? March, 2003.

Get back under your rock, Painter.

OK now you BELIEVE the Bush administration???? When did that happen???

Psssstttttt maybe they got it from someone besides Sheikh Mohammed??? Maybe?? Ya think???

 

[Upchurch]

BAC, Pascal is calling:

So do you advocate taking all of the Rich's Money away and giving it to the poor? I mean, with his multi multi billions of dollars, just think of all the people we'd save from starvation.

Would you take some money away from the rich to feed and provide healthcare for the poor? It's a trivial amount, really, for those who have so much and it could help save millions of people.

In this hypothetical scenario, of course, there are no other alternatives. It's either take the money or let millions die slowly, painfully from illness and starvation.

Where does your moral compass point you, BAC?

 

[leftysergeant]

OK now you BELIEVE the Bush administration???? When did that happen???

Psssstttttt maybe they got it from someone besides Sheikh Mohammed??? Maybe?? Ya think???

Not a bit of it. The Shrub's goons just proved that they are dimbulbs by lying so clumsily.

Anybody who takes their ranting as evidence of anything other than their stupidity and evil ideation has a headbolt or two out of torque.

 

[BeAChooser]

Exactly. we are talking about morality. Why is your morality so flexible as to allow torture?

Why is YOUR morality so inflexible as to allow a megamass murder to occur, when you could potentially stop it by simply applying a little pain and discomfort to one person? Because you think the evil in applying temporary pain and discomfort to one person is the same as the evil in allowing the murder of a 100,000 people? Such is the insanity of the left.