Was Tiller's Murder a Staged, State-Sponsored Terror Attack?

LightinDarkness said:
Murdering someone for performing abortions is my evidence for him being a fanatic.

Your mistaken assumption is that fanatics somehow must have a criminal record and history of violence. The guy was and is a nutcase, and you can act like a perfectly normal person while being otherwise insane.

Yet again, lets review:

The fact that some pro-choice groups have decided to exploit this poor man's death in order to score political points is indeed very sad, but it is NOT a conspiracy. Its just simple, ruthless politics.
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so not having a criminal record and not having a history of viloence, is evidence of fanaticism?
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Sheesh. Where's the evidence that you did not do it? :boggled:
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you've got things a**-backwards. Roeder is under no obligation to provide evidence that he didn't do it. He is presumed innocent.

"When a man accuses another man of murder, and the charge is not proven, then the accuser shall be put to death!"

Fabled Law Code of Hammurabi - Law # 1 - 1792 B.C.
 
Why do I have the feeling Galileo is one of those CTers whose cheering the murder of Tiller.
 
Galileo said:
Was Tiller's Murder a Staged, State-Sponsored Terror Attack?

There's a good chance that this shooting was done by an agent provocateur, in an attempt to advance the pro-abortion and anti-gun movement.
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Were is your evidence that this was done in order to seize peoples guns? All you provide is a list of items relating to a suspected murderer. Nothing you list is evidence of a conspiracy to take guns or increase the number of abortions performed.

Galileo said:
* No evidence has been presented that Roeder did the shooting.
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Well things are a little early in the prosecution process and I am sure there will be evidence presented in court. Jumping the gun on this point when you are not in anyway directly related to the case is a little silly. Police don't often release all of their evidence to the general public as it could harm the prosecutions case.

In any case how about two witnesses that he assaulted?

Roeder is accused of shooting Tiller to death Sunday at the doctor's Lutheran church in Wichita as he was serving as an usher. Roeder also was charged with aggravated assault for allegedly threatening two people who tried to stop him.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting_suspect

If this is a conspiracy I am guessing the whole church is in on it?

Galileo said:
* Roeder was 170 miles away when arrested.
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He was arrested 3 hours after the shooting near Gardner apx 170 miles away. Gardner is a straight shot from Wichita up I35. The speed limit on I35 is 70 mph. Assuming he did not speed he could have traveled up to 210 miles. The first thing most killers do is try and run. He was heading towards Kansas City which is his last know address. There is nothing odd about this at all.

Galileo said:
* The police are continually telling us that Roeder is linked to militant anti-abortion groups, but at the same time tell us he acted alone, before the investigation has even started.
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I have not seen anyone link him to anti-abortion groups. I have seen him linked to anti government groups which no one is denying.

Galileo said:
* Roeder has never been a member, volunteer or contributor to Operation Rescue.
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He has also never been a member, volunteer, or contributor to Green Peace. So what? This is completely irrelevant information.

Galileo said:
* Roeder posted some comments on the Operation Rescue forum that are peaceful in nature.
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Once again this is irrelevant. My mother is one of the kindest people on the planet but I have seen her threaten to kill people caught hunting on our land.

Galileo said:
* Roeder has no history of violence. Criminologists can tell you that it is very rare for non-violent people to suddenly become violent after the age of 50.
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Can you quote a source for this? He has been linked to violent anti government groups so perhaps his violent past is merely undocumented?

Galileo said:
* Roeder opposed abortion, which is his right to believe.
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Completely irrelevant.

Galileo said:
* Roeder was pro-life, which contradicts the notion that he would kill someone.
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Ummmm... other pro-life activists have killed abortion doctors. In fact this group you to keep a hit list.

http://www.christiangallery.com/

Galileo said:
* Roeder is being called a "lone nut", just like Lee Harvey Oswald and many other scapegoats of history.
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Until you can conclusively prove Lee Harvey was a scapegoat you should leave him out of the discussion. Who is calling Roeder a "lone nut?"

Galileo said:
* They keep telling us Roeder has a criminal record, even though the appeals court threw out his conviction because of government misconduct.
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Every source I can find talks about his conviction AND the fact that it was thrown out. Can you show me one that does not mention that it was thrown out?

Galileo said:
* The crime Roeder was accused of did not involve any initiation of force against another person, it was a regulatory technicality.
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Irrelevant.

Galileo said:
* Roeder's vindictive & disgruntled ex-wife is being quoted in the news.
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How do you know she is either vindictive or disgruntled? She is not a witness or even an accuser. The media is talking to people who know him, is that really evidence of a conspiracy?

Galileo said:
* No eyewitnesses saw Roeder at the crime scene.
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False, he shot Tiller in a church and assaulted two people that tried to stop him.

Galileo said:
* They did not get the license plate of the vehicle that left the scene, which makes his arrest suspicious and the ID of him unreliable.
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False.

According to the reports a white man carrying a handgun shot the doctor and then fled in a blue Ford Taurus.

"It's an unfortunate incident to happen on a Sunday morning," Wichita police captain Brent Allred told reporters. "These things should not occur at any time."

The FBI and state police were called in to help search for the gunman, whose licence plate was registered to a home in a suburb of Kansas City, 200 miles away.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/31/abortion-doctor-george-tiller-killed

Galileo said:
* Roeder is a political activist. Shooting an abortion doctor does not benefit his cause, it benefits the cause of his political opponents.
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Most killers don't think these things through and other political activists have killed abortion doctors.

Galileo said:
* If Roeder is really crazy, why has he not spoken to the media? If Roeder is not crazy, then this entire case makes no sense at all.
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What? Completely false assumptions and logic here. If someone is crazy then they have to talk to the media? If they don't talk to the media then they can't be crazy? Temporary insanity is a possibility and a legal defense.

Galileo said:
* Roeder is a political activist who has the nation's attention. Why has he not talked to the media? Why does the news only report one side of the story?
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What's the other side? Perhaps Roeder's attorney is advising him not to talk. Perhaps he is feeling ashamed and doesn't want to talk. There are many reasons he wouldn't be giving interviews but this is not evidence of a conspiracy.

Galileo said:
* Where is the smoking gun?
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Where is yours?

Galileo said:
Not all pro-life people support the death penalty. What Roeder's views on the death penalty are, is unknown.
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They are also irrelevant and would not support your theory anyway.

Galileo said:
Also, most people who favor the death penalty favor it only for murder, usually first degree murder.
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Your point is...?

Galileo said:
Being in favor of the death penalty for murder is the exact opposite of being in favor of murdering people, which is what someone did to Tiller.
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Wouldn't the exact opposite of being in favor of murdering people actually be being against murdering people? Again, how is this evidence?

Galileo said:
It is obvious from the media coverage that the "authorities" are attempting to convict Roeder in the media. Usually when this is done, they trumpet the strongest evidence. In this case, no real evidence has been trumpeted, possibly because the evidence has not been manufactured yet.

Roeder is presumed innocent unless proven guilty.
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You need to prove that the "authorities" are controlling the media. You also need to tell us who the authorities are.

Evidence has been found and presented as I detailed above. More will come out in a trial, which Roeder will be given.

Yes, he is innocent until proven guilty, and nothing will change that.
 
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abenja1 said:
Why do I have the feeling Galileo is one of those CTers whose cheering the murder of Tiller.
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I don't know who did it, but it looks as if Tiller was the victim of a VERY late term abortion!

:D
 
if you criminalize abortions than only criminals will have abortions!
 
Let's get Abortion out of the Hospitals and Clinics and back into the Back Alleys where it belongs........
 
Galileo said:
No, I have admitted nothing.
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If you state that "Only people already born, support abortion rights" and then state a little later "I am for abortion rights" in a thread you started about how the tragic murder of an abortion doctor is actually a conspiracy by the anti-gun lobby in cooperation with the pro-choice lobby than you are a troll. You can deny it all you like.

I will never waste as much time as I did earlier on another of your trolling posts. You have my word on that.
 
What can you expect from somebody who regards the works of Dan Brown as Great Literature?
 
By this line of reasoning, nobody ever does anything, ever. Only the government does it, unless they don't.
 
Just responding to a few points:
There's a good chance that this shooting was done by an agent provocateur, in an attempt to advance the pro-abortion and anti-gun movement.
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I've been involved with abortion rights groups for years, and I have yet to meet a single person who's "pro-abortion."

* No evidence has been presented that Roeder did the shooting.
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Sorry, I wasn't aware that the prosecution has presented its case and come up wanting. Are they supposed to run things by you first?


* Roeder has never been a member, volunteer or contributor to Operation Rescue.

* Roeder posted some comments on the Operation Rescue forum that are peaceful in nature.
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I love how these contradictory claims are placed right next to each other. If he posted on an Operation Rescue Forum, he could be considered a contributor to that movement. As far as monetary contributions go, how would you know? I donate small amounts to causes all the time without asking for tax receipts.

* Roeder was pro-life, which contradicts the notion that he would kill someone.
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That's only if you believe that the pro-life movement is what the words would seem to say. I find that many (not all) in the pro-life movement are quite simply "anti-woman." Their view have nothing to do with respecting life and everything to do with controlling others.

Bottom line: If there's not yet enough evidence coming out about Roeder and his possible motives (and just because you can't guess what they are doesn't mean they don't exist), why are you assigning blame to the government? Where's the evidence that they're involved?
 
Robster said:
By this line of reasoning, nobody ever does anything, ever. Only the government does it, unless they don't.
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Which sums up at least half of the conspiracy theories ever. For the other half, replace "government" with "jews".
 
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